Leading, powder buildup?

[KYShooter73]

I'm having some troubles here folks. I've loaded about 300lb of PC boolits in the last year, 95% being for handgun. 45acp and 9mm mostly. I won't say it has been trouble free, but I have never had leading or PC buildup. Just run a brush down the bore every few hundred rounds, maybe a few drops of hoppes, and a couple patches. I use ES spray harbor freight black exclusively.

Now the problem....300 Blackout. CMMG 1/7 Carbine length 16 in barrel. Never had a j-word fired through it. All boolits were COWW + 2% tin Lee 312-155. I've fired approximately 450 rounds, doing various tests mostly using aluminum gas checks. I've varied oal, extremely light loads, overpowered loads, and worked up compressed loads with powder slower than recommended, used boolits sized .309 and .311. Never cleaned the barrel more than a dry patch or two. I know that twist rate is breaking the rules on RPM's, but that isn't my question.

The first 4 inches of my barrel is now a smooth bore. I've dealt with heavy leading before, a little time and elbow grease, and all is well. Not this time. I've worked on it a while every evening for two weeks. I can barely see any improvement. I can't find any Chore Boy, but have tried the following:

1. Worn out 3 bronze brushes.
2. Aluminum window screen on a jag.
3. 0000 steel wool.
4. 4 steel wool.
5. Aluminum can cut up to resemble chore boy strands.
6. Stainless Tornado brush.
7. 50/50 vinegar and peroxide.
8. Hoppes #9.
9. Shooters Choice MC #7.
10. Paint thinner.
11. Acetone.
12. Drove an annealed brass case through the bore.
13. Hundreds of tight wet and dry patches.

Every time I run an abrasive through the bore, the following patch comes out dirty. Sometimes it looks like lead, others it looks too dark to be lead. I don't know if it is lead or PC buildup, or a combination of both. I know these methods may seem extreme, but I'm at a loss and have about 12 hours of cleaning in this barrel. I have not yet tried heat because I didn't want to remove the barrel from the upper. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks.

[freebullet]

I'm no expert but earlier this summer I inadvertently turned my 357 in to a smoothbore. I used a bore snake with strands of chore boy scrubbers around it. I sprayed break free powder blast on the snake 6-7 passes to clean. I have also used butchs bore solvent on the snake with the same effort to get the lead out.

[Maximumbob54]

If you can't find them you can order them pretty cheap:

http://www.amazon.com/Chore-Boy%C2%A...pper+chore+boy

Either that or it's time to order a Lewis Lead Remover.

[prickett]

The absolute best lead remover is an Outers Foul Out unit. Best $100 a caster will ever spend.

[KYShooter73]

The absolute best lead remover is an Outers Foul Out unit. Best $100 a caster will ever spend.

Thanks Prickett. Kinda pricy, but when looking I found a way to build one. I should be able to repurpose some of the stuff I made when trying my hand at copper plating. Looks just like electrolysis with the polarity reversed.

[Idz]

I think the Outer's foul-out has been discontinued. You can't even get the cleaning solutions anymore. But yes it works great!

[prickett]

I think the Outer's foul-out has been discontinued. You can't even get the cleaning solutions anymore. But yes it works great!

Doh! Looks like I better stock up on the lead-out fluid - if I can find any. Saved me numerous time as I was learning casting, then coating.

[KYShooter73]

I've made one of these....so far no dice. Steel rod as cathode, barrel as anode, with the vinegar/ammonia solution in the sealed barrel. Gonna give it a few hours, it is bubbling like crazy.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/

[prickett]

Note the last word in the URL: copperout

In the Outer Foul Out, there is a separate solution for copper removal and lead removal.

[KYShooter73]

Ya, the ammonia/vinegar is a bust, just foamed like heck. After some more reading, gonna try it with vinegar/peroxide or sodium acetate solution. Then I'll shoot some cream of wheat loads. If that don't work......out comes the torch.

[retread]

Recipe for foul-out can be found in the homemade cleaners. I believe it is in the stickies. If not contact me and I can send you a copy.

Jay

[retread]

Had a copy on in my documents. Here it is:

Just for those of you with curious minds, the Outers CopOut Plus solution contain approximately 0.6 percent cupric acetate and 2.5 percent ammonium acetate (3.62 grams/ liter of copper acetate and 38.5 grams/liter of ammonium acetate) in distilled/deionized water. The LeadOut Plus contains approximately 2 percent lead acetate and 5 percent ammonium acetate (6.50 grams/liter of lead acetate and 38.5 grams/liter of ammonium acetate ) in distilled/deionized water. A good basic solution for either would be
Copper Solution
562.3 grains Ammonium Acetate
51.3 grains Copper Acetate or 58.3 grains Cupric Acetate Monohydrate
Add distilled (or high megohm deionized) water to make 1 Qt.
Lead Solution
562.3 grains Ammonium Acetate
95.0 grains Lead Acetate or 110.8 grains of Lead Acetate Trihydrate
Add distilled (or high megohm deionized) water to make 1 Qt.
Note that since the Outers FoulOut unit limits the voltage and current in the electrolysis process and runs at about .3 volts (3/10 volt)-- at typically a max of about 20 milliamps.
Possible sources for these chemicals in small quantities are:
Post Apple Scientific, Inc. http://www.postapplescientific.com
Sigma-Aldrich (800-325-3010) http://www.sigmaaldrich.com
This company lists 100 grams of Copper (II) Acetate for about $19 and 500 grams of Ammonium Acetate for about $17. If you assume $1.00 per gallon for distilled water, you can make the solution for copper removal for $1.60 per quart. This does not include shipping costs on the chemicals.
The Science Company http://www.sciencecompany.com

[Ausglock]

This is the procedure from a well respected Industrial Chemist.
1.
Under no circumstances should any one use Copper Salts of any kind to clean barrels.
Solution of Copper salts, (Sulfate, Acetate, Nitrate, Chloride) and others, in water immediately on contact with steel, start severe corrosion of metal surfaces that come in contact with the copper solutions.
The sludge that is being removed is a combination of Iron/steel, and Copper precipitated by electrolytic displacement of Copper with the metal the solution comes into contact with.
2.
Ammonia cleaners to remove Copper deposits also eat away the Barrel as the Ammonia solubilises the Copper, then the solubilised Coppper immediately starts to corrode away the steel (barrel surfaces)
3.
Powder coatings, and other coatings, that are bonded to inside barrel, are easy to remove.
User needs to obtain N-Methyl Pyrrolidone liquid. (NMP)
Simply plug one end of barrel, fill a dry barrel with this material.
Warm with hair drier for quicker job.
If time is not important, simply leave over night.
Next day, the paint sludge residue can be easily removed by brush.
Then, simply rinse bore out with water, and Metho to dry water, and then use light anti-corrosion spray to protect cleaned metal bore.
Pull through with rag, examine bore to ensure all is clean.
NOTE.
Do not spill the NMP onto synthetic surfaces as it will damage those surfaces.

[TheDoctor]

One thing to be careful of if you decide to build your own foul out system. There IS a reason the voltage and amperage is as low as it is. You go much higher, and you run a serious risk of damaging your barrel. Find a used foul out system, or make sure you have a functioning controller in the one you build. Just a rod with some batteries is a very bad thing...

[popper]

Back to Ed's Red for cleaning. Kyshooter - sounds like the Lee load is too fast for the twist. You should be WD those pills. Did you try some hard alloy subsonic CBs with ALOX? Somebody near you should carry the chore boy else order some. It's still a lot of work but does work and won't do ay damage.

[gefiltephish]

Trevor, you mean this stuff? I wonder if any paint stripper would do? I looked at the MSDS sheets of several at home depot and a few contain 30-60% NMP, but none are 100%.

[freebullet]

Brass faucet screen works good too. Poke a hole in the middle so you can screw it on behind your bronze bore brush and go at it.

[Tech2]

If you don't have a tube of Autosol in your arsenal buy a tube.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOSOL-Car-...item1c38554815
When you think that you have done a good job of cleaning out a bore run a patch with a little Autosol on it. Generally it comes out completely black after a few strokes. It will polish almost anything to a luster you haven't seen since it was new. It will cut lead at a slow steady rate. I tend to alternate between something like a bore brush wrapped in copper wool soaked in your favorite fluid and an Autosol patch to see what progress you have made.

My project Mosin finished with Autosol over a year ago.

[KYShooter73]

Back to Ed's Red for cleaning. Kyshooter - sounds like the Lee load is too fast for the twist. You should be WD those pills. Did you try some hard alloy subsonic CBs with ALOX? Somebody near you should carry the chore boy else order some. It's still a lot of work but does work and won't do ay damage.

I have not water dropped after coating, nor have I shot subsonic. I may heat some back up to 400 and water drop them if I ever get this barrel clean. I'm working on the Ed's red. Just lack the kerosine and a container, and some lanolin is on its way from Randyrat. To be honest, I see a new barrel with a longer twist rate somewhere in my future.

[Ausglock]

Trevor, you mean this stuff? I wonder if any paint stripper would do? I looked at the MSDS sheets of several at home depot and a few contain 30-60% NMP, but none are 100%.

Yep. that's it.