I'm aggravated....powder

[RogerDat]

Simply put there was a run and hoarding as a result of concerns first after the election of a pro regulation President and then a second run based on concerns about Congress getting involved. The first run depleted supply, so that the second run created shortages.

Instead of supply being on the store shelves or in distributors or manufacturers warehouse the supply is in peoples basements or garages. I'm not going to rag on anyone that is snapping up supplies well beyond the "normal" amount they keep on hand. I will point out that after the gas crisis back in the 70's someone later figured out that production (supply) was well over actual usage (normal demand) but that much of the supply was in 5 gallon cans in peoples garages or tied up in everyone topping the vehicles fuel tank at every opportunity (hoarding) causing the shortages that did occur, driving more hoarding, creating more shortages.

It was a kind of stupid that the public created their own gas shortage and drove up price, but then again the collection of idiots in DC was not talking about banning private ownership of gasoline either so one could say hoarding ammo or reloading supplies is somewhat more rational but we all as a group live with the consequences of individual choices to snap up everything that we can find.

I generally purchase ammo every year or 18 months, I notice I'm getting low on something, take general inventory, and over the next month or two look for good deals to rebuild stock to the amount I like to keep on hand. Just so happens that this time it coincided with Congress considering legislation so there was not much to buy and nothing that looked like a deal. I figure short of the zombie apocalypse I have enough ammo I can wait a bit.

I also just by chance and bad luck went looking for my first reloading equipment when the run had pretty much any press at a 6 month back order. Now I'm using a Lee loader.... and waiting for all that "like new" equipment to end up on ebay at a good price. Or since the press manufactures have now pretty much caught up I can purchase new. Maybe some of those panic or scarcity driven purchasers of reloading equipment will help grow the community instead of dumping the equipment or stashing it on a shelf. One can hope for a positive outcome right?

[lmfd20]

What I can't figger out is how smaller shops like the Black Sheep in Coeur d'Alene, Id. can have oodles of powder and primers on their shelves, yet the big whoop dee do Cabela's in Post Falls, 9 miles down I-90, doesn't have anything in comparison!

It's easy to keep powder on the shelf when you are a small single store walk in retailer. Little harder when you serve tens if not hundreds of millions online and at retail. I'm assuming the status of the small store. My LGS has had a stockpile of powder and primers through all of this but there is a reason. I just ordered and received 46 pounds of powder and 5k of primers online for the same price I could buy 15 pounds of powder and 5k of primers at the LGS. They can keep it for the prices they want.

[gray wolf]

I for one am just not buying into this crapppp, working 24/7 my butt, working for who ??
Not us. Sorry but Bubba ain't buying up all the supplies. If they are working 24/7 then lets see the goods Eh. It's got to be on the shelves for people to buy it.
Cabellas, Midway, powder valley, grafs, mid south, nat ches, all the major players are out of everything and have been for a long time. Big deal, a little shows up here and there, that don't make 24/7 production.
They may be making it but it ain't foe us, what about the billions of rounds the Gov. bought ? that would make em work 24/7 No brass, no powder, no projectiles, no primers. The biggest dealers have been out,
so wares the Beef folks. Gun control is a huge thing now, I personally think we are being shamed, the next time they tell you they are working round the clock, ask them FOR WHO, cause it ain't us--over a year now.
sorry for the spelling

[freebullet]

You can't buy market share if there is no product to share with your clients.

There is no shortage here.

I don't want anything that says kel Tec. I gave them a good honest chance and they failed me.

[Love Life]

They can buy all the ad space they want IMO. Ad sales keep the magazines going. I wondered if they profiled Retumbo because that is all anybody can find, super slow stuff?

Retumbo is good stuff with 107 gr SMK in the .243 Winchester. I hope more comes in stock before I burn up my last 2 1/2 lbs. If not, then 7828 it is!!

[MtGun44]

Sorry gray wolf, I think you got it wrong. The stuff is going into the normal channels, but much of
it is bought very soon after it hits the shelves. Many reasons, but the factories ARE running at max output
and the products are shipping, even though it may not look like it. I would guess that the powder
is mostly being diverted into production of ammo. If you run your ammo plants 3 shifts instead
of one or two shifts, how much extra powder and primer will you be diverting from the
reloading channel? Me thinks ALOT.

For example, Walmarts near me all have lots of .223 Fed (Lake City) in stock, multiple 50 cal
cans full of XM193 on strippers, and in smaller batches, too. Not too cheap, IIRC it was
$470 for 900 or something like that, not cheap, but get strippers and 50 cal can with it, and
top grade ammo. Starting to be .45 ACP and .38 Spl, too in Walmart. They are slowly getting
ahead of the hoarders, except for .22 LR. . . . . . . the creatins are still lining up to buy out every
bit of it to hoard or sell on the net.

Bill

[jcwit]

Sorry gray wolf, I think you got it wrong. The stuff is going into the normal channels, but much of
it is bought very soon after it hits the shelves. Many reasons, but the factories ARE running at max output
and the products are shipping, even though it may not look like it. I would guess that the powder
is mostly being diverted into production of ammo. If you run your ammo plants 3 shifts instead
of one or two shifts, how much extra powder and primer will you be diverting from the
reloading channel? Me thinks ALOT.

For example, Walmarts near me all have lots of .223 Fed (Lake City) in stock, multiple 50 cal
cans full of XM193 on strippers, and in smaller batches, too. Not too cheap, IIRC it was
$470 for 900 or something like that, not cheap, but get strippers and 50 cal can with it, and
top grade ammo. Starting to be .45 ACP and .38 Spl, too in Walmart. They are slowly getting
ahead of the hoarders, except for .22 LR. . . . . . . the creatins are still lining up to buy out every
bit of it to hoard or sell on the net.

Bill

We have one of the big distributors here in central Michigan, who has none and isn't getting any even tho it on order and has been. So tell me again just how its going thru "normal" channels and being snatched up by all the gray hairs to supplement the retirement income.

Ain't buying that story anymore. If in fact this was the case tell me why match ammo is still readily available, at the same price point it was a few years ago?

I'll believe it when I personally see it.

[Lead Fred]

and people are still hoarding

Has nothing to do with the 2.5 billion rounds homeland has nothing to do with this

[FISH4BUGS]

I think I am a typical volume caster/reloader. I shoot full auto thus go through a fair amount of components. However, I have slacked off my full auto shooting for a while until I build my stock of components. I have no idea how much is "enough".
Over the last 5 years I have scrounged (yes, hoarded) in excess of a ton of wheel weights. I always bought my primers in lots of 5000 anyway. Powder was always bought in 8 lb jugs anyway. Brass was bought in lots of 5000 anyway. That's what you do when you shoot machine guns.
However, now I buy whenever it is available whether I need it or not. I stumbled across an 8 lb jug of 748 at $170 at a large gun store. That same store had some primers and I bought 5000 small pistol at $28/1000. I bought both of them. Did I need it? No. But now I have 3 8 lb jugs of 748 and 15,000 small pistol primers. That adds to the 16 lbs of 296 and 16 lbs of 231, 10,000 small rifle and 10,000 large rifle primers. 5000 large pistol, 5000 large pistol magnum and 5000 small pistol magnum primers round out the inventory.
My name is Donald and I am a hoarder. I am the problem folks. I admit it. Take me and multiply me by MILLIONS of people stocking up, hoarding, prepping, etc. and THAT is the reason for the shortage. Particularly with the 22's.
Dillon is running 24x7. Lee is running 24x7. EVERYONE is running 24x7.
It takes MILLIONS of dollars to ramp up a production line from scratch. I think the manufacturers are hesitant to invest that kind of money in this political environment. They could be wiped out in the stroke of a pen. They could be wiped out with a Democratic Congress and House.
People like me is the problem. Not the manufacturers.

[Lloyd Smale]

something more the horders is going on with aliant. There hasnt been any reloader 19,22 or 25 for almost 2 years now. Im not just talking local gunshops im talking even the big distributors. I can see them needing time to catch up after the last rush but these rushes have happened a number of times and recovery hasnt taken this long.

[mrvmax]

FYI, I am an FFL and I sell firearms as a side job (or hobby). I check my distributors (I have about 5 that sell powder) numerous times a day for new powder that has been placed in stock so I can buy whatever I need and sell the rest. When it does show up in stock, within a matter of minutes it will all be sold and there is no way of knowing what came in when I was not checking. On another note, online distributors (like Midsouth) have their powder for sale at less than my cost. I know that the places that sell large quantities get much better discounts since they buy in massive quantities but it makes it harder for me to make any money on it. I am sure there are a lot of little gun shops that are int eh same boat.

[cbrick]

Not just Alliant, other powders are the same such as Vihtavouri, none anyplace, not just gone as they get it, there just hasn't been any.

Rick

[jcwit]

I think I am a typical volume caster/reloader. I shoot full auto thus go through a fair amount of components. However, I have slacked off my full auto shooting for a while until I build my stock of components. I have no idea how much is "enough".
Over the last 5 years I have scrounged (yes, hoarded) in excess of a ton of wheel weights. I always bought my primers in lots of 5000 anyway. Powder was always bought in 8 lb jugs anyway. Brass was bought in lots of 5000 anyway. That's what you do when you shoot machine guns.
However, now I buy whenever it is available whether I need it or not. I stumbled across an 8 lb jug of 748 at $170 at a large gun store. That same store had some primers and I bought 5000 small pistol at $28/1000. I bought both of them. Did I need it? No. But now I have 3 8 lb jugs of 748 and 15,000 small pistol primers. That adds to the 16 lbs of 296 and 16 lbs of 231, 10,000 small rifle and 10,000 large rifle primers. 5000 large pistol, 5000 large pistol magnum and 5000 small pistol magnum primers round out the inventory.
My name is Donald and I am a hoarder. I am the problem folks. I admit it. Take me and multiply me by MILLIONS of people stocking up, hoarding, prepping, etc. and THAT is the reason for the shortage. Particularly with the 22's.
Dillon is running 24x7. Lee is running 24x7. EVERYONE is running 24x7.
It takes MILLIONS of dollars to ramp up a production line from scratch. I think the manufacturers are hesitant to invest that kind of money in this political environment. They could be wiped out in the stroke of a pen. They could be wiped out with a Democratic Congress and House.
People like me is the problem. Not the manufacturers.

Sorry guy, I've yet to see those "millions" buying in the stores.

Just as I've yet to hear of all the U.S./Canadian border hospitals being swamped with Canadian patient's because Canada's health care is so bad.

Dillon is running 24x7. Lee is running 24x7. EVERYONE is running 24x7.

And you know this as an indisputable fact? How so?

[jcwit]

But now I have 3 8 lb jugs of 748 and 15,000 small pistol primers. That adds to the 16 lbs of 296 and 16 lbs of 231, 10,000 small rifle and 10,000 large rifle primers. 5000 large pistol, 5000 large pistol magnum and 5000 small pistol magnum primers round out the inventory.

That isn't even a big hoard, but then I stocked mine way before this madness started.

Primers were less than 40 bucks a sleeve of 5,000, powder was less than $8.00 a lb in 8 lb jugs.

Plinking .22's $5/8 bucks a brick.

[762 shooter]

I guess it's all in the timing.

If you bought your supplies over a year ago at "normal prices" you are a smart consumer.

If you are buying your supplies now at inflated prices, you are a hoarder.



762

[taiden]

It's no conspiracy. You can see the hoarding / stocking up / scare buying plain as day. When our local Dicks gets a pallet of Winchester 550 22lr, the word spreads like wildfire. They will have about 500 boxes on the shelf at 9AM and by 11AM it's all gone. The next day, about a quarter of it is in the local classifieds at double the price. The day after that, the classifieds are gone.

I can only imagine this is happening at every big box ammo retailer around the nation.

Supply and demand, people. Supply is relatively fixed, but the demand is extremely high. Everyone's desire to "not be caught with their pants down" for "the next shortage" is just extending the existing shortage by buying stuff so fast it never stays on the shelves.

But I can't blame anyone. I have a 10/22 to feed, and when I hear about ammo, I go buy it, because who knows when I'll see it next.

(That said, our little local gun store always has 50rnd boxes in stock, ranging from $4 a box to $7 a box. It's too bad, but hey, it's cheaper than anything else and you can get it whenever you want. That's worth a small premium in my mind.)

[daengmei]

I can almost forecast the ammo arrival at the local Walmart when I see the parking lined up outside. Go inside and look for ammo, yep, several folks who have been waiting for the stocking to finish. One says, hey your lucky, you just walked right up and it's ready. If there is any 22 it's sold right then and someone always behind me is grumbling....Some of them don't know the brands, caliber or anything, just want them little bullets.

[perotter]

It's no conspiracy. You can see the hoarding / stocking up / scare buying plain as day.....

Supply and demand, people. Supply is relatively fixed, but the demand is extremely high. Everyone's desire to "not be caught with their pants down" for "the next shortage" is just extending the existing shortage by buying stuff so fast it never stays on the shelves.

...

Where is the REX powders that used to be brought into the country? What about the Russian Unique? Why haven't they been coming into the country for the last few years? Why is the Vihtavuori plant being shutdown because of there being excess powder making capacity in Europe(world)?

Hard to believe that suddenly a number of people no longer want to make a little more money. While I believe that Alliant and St. Marks are running flat out, these are few questions I have that I'd like to get good answers to.

[perotter]

Just as I've yet to hear of all the U.S./Canadian border hospitals being swamped with Canadian patient's because Canada's health care is so bad.

They aren't swamped because only those with higher paying government jobs or a top job in a large corp can afford to come here. Any one who doubts that come to Rochester next summer for a couple of weeks. Spend the evenings on the river walk, downtown area, concert in the park, etc.

You'll meet a number of Canadians. Engage in a pleasant conversation with them and you'll learn that they are here for the Mayo Clinic health care. None of them will be blue collar workers, engineers, etc.

[jonp]

At first I was buying the hoarding and other explanations about the lack of powder supply but now I'm beginning to wonder. More people are reloading and ammo is being bought but there are only so many new re-loaders and people that might hoard some powder and a limited supply of powder at that. Something is beginning to not smell right to me.