For those who have served so that the world may be a better place:

[Honorstick]

I come from a family of vets. My father and an unle in WWII, an uncle in Korea, older brother and brother in law in Vietnam, myself a peace time Marine and my younger brother a retired Marine with 3 deployments to Iraq and a lot of what has been said about not sharing holds true even in a family of vets it's normally more of a passing comment and nods of understanding. Appreciation of service is always welcome but the stories will most likely be buried with a lot of the vets. That's just the way it is.

[slim1836]

I will never ask, but will listen if told, I thank each and every one of you who served.

God bless you and the United States of America,

Slim

[montana_charlie]

Here's a 'war story' I don't mind telling ... and I'm telling you from the start that I am not in any way trying to disparage President Richard Nixon. He did what he had to do, just like all of us did what we had to do. But, things can sometimes be very ironic ...

I was on Nui Ba Den mountain where there were ten of us (five Army and five Air Force) as the full complement of a communications site in Military Region III near the southern terminus of the Ho Chi Minh trail.
In the 'Big Hooch' there were a couple of tables and a collection of chairs, and that was sort of our 'day room' if we felt like gathering for any reason.
We had a TV which was wired up to the RPG screen on the outside wall. That 'antenna' allowed us to pick AFN in Saigon ... 65 miles to the southeast.

One afternoon in August of '72 all of us who weren't actually working radios were in the 'day room', and we had three things on our minds.

1. The slopes of Nui Ba Den were heavily populated by bad guys ... all of the time. The artillery unit down at Tay Ninh would fire randomly onto the slopes in an attempt to 'disrupt' movements and operations that might be in progress. It was called harassment and interdiction fire ... or H&I.

The first thing on our minds was the fact that, due to an ammunition shortage, Tay Ninh would not be dropping H&I rounds on us that night, so Charlie could unfasten his seatbelt and move about feely.

2. All of our power was supplied by three big diesel generators. One was running, one on standby, and the third was (usually) in some kind of maintenance condition. There was a seven-foot high revetment around the three generators with interior 'walls' that made three separate 'rooms'. if one generator got damaged or destroyed, it was isolated from the others.
This particular revetment was new, having been recently built by a group of local laborers who had been choppered up for several days in a row to complete that project and some other construction that was needed.

The second thing on our minds was the fact that the outer wall of this new revetment had collapsed outward ... exposing all three generators to view from the perimeter.

3. We were gathered in the 'day room' on that late August afternoon to clean all of our weapons, fill all of our magazines, check and replenish other things needed in our outside fighting positions like sacks full of grenades, bandoliers of M-79 rounds, and the 'clickers' required to fire claymore mines positioned out ahead of us.

We were engaged in this 'full court press' to make sure everything was ready because the third thing on our minds that day was a fresh intel report that estimated we had a "better than 80% chance" of being hit that night.

Considering the other two 'shortcomings' in our defense mechanism, we figured the probability was a good deal higher than the estimate.

So, we are cleaning guns, and counting grenades while the humor got a little bizarre. About that time Nixon came on the TV screen to make a speech, so we all shut up.

I can't remember the whole thing, and it doesn't really matter anymore. But the part that hit home to us (the guys doing their best to increase their odds of seeing the sun rise) was when our President said ...

"It gives me great pleasure to be able to inform you that, as of now, the United States no longer has any ground combat forces serving in the Republic of South Vietnam."

[MT Gianni]

I enjoyed that Charlie. I had a BIL that was part of a "Small Token Force" in four conflicts. i know his unit had over 300 people in it.

[Love Life]

Below is a story I don't mind telling:

There we were, larger than life. It was a cold, early, November morning sitting on a roof top in a far away place waiting for people to do bad things.

I was sitting there with my fire team, quietly hating life and wishing I was where I was when I wished I was there. We were tired, cold, and annoyed. 4 houses down, and on another rooftop, was 1st fire team.

We had been on the rooftops for hours. Boring, cold, long hours. Suddenly we hear the radio key. Over the company net comes a loud, long, fart. It sounded like a sheet of paper ripping for about 7 seconds. It was so loud that my saw gunner heard it come over the handset about 10 ft away.

You should have seen us on that rooftop, trying our hardest to be silent, and giggling like little school girls. What makes it funnier is after the fart was done we had about 5 seconds of silence. Then the company commander got on the horn and went absolutely bat poo crazy.

Later on in the day when we retrograded the story came out. My best friend in 1st fire team had gotten bored and cut a fart into the radio. He had forgotten we were on company net and not squad net. That will stick with me until the day I die.


---Now stories like that I can tell all day. Those moments of sunshine that make you giggle whenever they come to mind.

[SeabeeMan]

I don't mind sharing some of it, but there are things I try not to think about, never mind record. My wife probably has some ideas but doesn't push and it scares me to think of my daughter (now 2) knowing some of those things about me. I'm proud of my service and it made me the man I am but I don't want to relive it.

[Dragoon 45]

I am glad your experiences are more positive but there is a huge difference between your experiences and mine. I had over 31 years total service when I retired in Dec 2004. I see little difference in how servicemembers were treated in 1973 vice how they are treated now. Oh, people are a little more polite about it today, but they look down their noses at servicemembers and veterans as much today as they did in 1973. And to give a little indication of things to come, wait till you have to deal with the VA, you will quickly learn to cringe every time you hear that "Thank You for Your Service" as you are about to be screwed over big time by the VA. Or even better when you are applying for a civilian job and you hear that phrase when you are told you didn't get the job, because they hired someone less qualified than you because they were not a veteran.

Really? I have never felt that the people who take the time out of their day to thank you for the service your VOLUNTEERED for and THEY PAY you to do are being condescending or insincere. What a slap to the face of those who took the time out of their lives to thank you for something you VOLUNTEERED to do and THEY PAY you to do.

I have always felt that I haven't earned their thanks.

I volunteered to do it, and they pay me to do it. Imagine if I was a fry cook and somebody thanked me for salting their fries. I feel the same way. It is my job. I volunteered for it.

So, for anybody who has taken time out of their lives to thank people for doing what they volunteered to do and what you pay them to do, thank you. It makes alot of people feel awkward, and they'll probably Ho'hum and shuffle their feet, but it is appreciated. Very much appreciated.

[snuffy]

[QUOTE=Dragoon 45;2395114]I am glad your experiences are more positive but there is a huge difference between your experiences and mine. I had over 31 years total service when I retired in Dec 2004. I see little difference in how servicemembers were treated in 1973 vice how they are treated now. Oh, people are a little more polite about it today, but they look down their noses at servicemembers and veterans as much today as they did in 1973. And to give a little indication of things to come, wait till you have to deal with the VA, you will quickly learn to cringe every time you hear that "Thank You for Your Service" as you are about to be screwed over big time by the VA. Or even better when you are applying for a civilian job and you hear that phrase when you are told you didn't get the job, because they hired someone less qualified than you because they were not a veteran.[/QUOT]

I'm sorry your experience with the VA is so bad. I'm under care with the VA, and I'm very happy with the care I get. On par with the best hospitals in my area. I'm diabetic, have had prostate surgery, care for my heart condition, and many therapies and surgeries relating to the above conditions.

My prescriptions cost only a 10 buck co-pay, otherwise they'd cast me thousands each month. Average cost overall each year is 1 thousand bucks.

If not for the VA, I just couldn't live like I am, I'd be eating Ramon noodles 3X-day.

[ozo]

"back then you sucked it up by yourself"----

I know better than to say a word, but I'm sure it ain't the first time....I did it anyway.

I had a 97 yr old neighbor that was well decorated, never spoke of those times, walked everyday on our simple country street with the little dog his grandaughter gave him, still drove his pickup, even to the hospital for tests where he died 65hrs later, full of cancer. He NEVER walked by my driveway without stopping, looking up the hill and saying something....I saw him too many times.....and I really attempted to walk down as much as possible to visit. He would never come up to the house, and most visits were at his home across the road. Every once in a while, at his home while helping him move something, he would slip.....and ask ME something about war. Even when I would see medals and his dress ribbons in a junk drawer in his basement, ask him , he would look at me straight in the eyes...and tell me he didn't remember. When he 'slipped' and asked me about Nam he would quickly change the subject. He would always be very shy for a couple of days afterwards. I understood him well, as he surely knew me even better.
Sometimes 'it' wants to come out.....to be said....maybe to be honored in some weird way....and then 'it' runs and hides.
I have five sons and a daughter and none of them have a clue what I did in the Corps. My spouse knows more than anyone, is one of three people that has ever seen me cry, and she don't know 10% of me from then. She knows I was a Captain because there is evidence that lives in our home......I led 7.....a demolition team....and the 3 that came home with me shared more BBQ and beer and cigarettes than you can count. Once a year we had a coonass party that would rival mardi-gras. There is only me and Boudreaux left. My spouse listens to me and him talk......a lot. She thinks we talk funny. I can't tell you that he and I have ever mentioned a word to each other about them days. She is jealous of him, I know she is. She knows I love him more than I love her.
[blackthorn]
I don't know if you will ever get your wish....the stories from Nam, and I understand exactly what you mean.....if no reason but to record history for history's sake alone.....but many of us are dead. I don't really know what the rest of us are. I do remember some guys we would see in a camp when we had the pleasure to retreat for clothing and rations that may talk about it all without blinking, they had dried up ears on strings around their necks. Best I know, they never got far away from that camp. But they knew everything that went on[ha], and I liked them......they had the best clothing......in good shape, but stinky. [FYI....we didn't have camo BDU's....we had greens] New clothes could get you killed.
This may sound/seem wacko.....but I feel weird and don't know what to say when people say 'thank you for your service'......
First of all, it's a new thing to me, I've never heard it before 9/11.....and ironically, 9/11 is also my birthday.....just passed as a matter of fact. I get double-whammy's.....happy birthday...thank you for.....my Facebook plugs up, my e-mail plugs up, all the forums [mostly gun] swamp me with good wishes. It's not negative.....and there are still so many good folks still here in my America....and they honestly mean well...from their heart.....but it is overwhelming.
I know I am full of it, I ramble with jibberish, I don't know when to shut up.....one reason my spouse hates to go out in public with me.....so I just will.
It's this simple...I stumbled in here [castboolits], I fell down, and my age would not allow me to get up and leave rapidly.
Please forgive me if I caused any offense, to any, at any level.
God bless all of you....and your loved ones.

[Ramar]

Dad is a WWII. Vet. and at 94 is still going strong. He was taken prisoner at the Battle of the Bulge and stayed in Stallog 9a until the end of the war. He would never talk about it until 15 years ago when his 1st great grand son was born. I told him that there would be more of them to come and they'd loved to know who he was and what he did in the war. He consented to me doing some documenting of his memories and I did so.

He answered most questions and even looked forward to our discussions as some of his memories where returning. I wrote most of it down and even got him to voice record some notes and stories so the family could here it in his own words.

One story I can repeat here, is the time in his stallog when the men in his barracks was confronted with the theft of food from the galley that was broken into the night before. Nobody would confess to it and the entire barracks was marched outside to a clearing in the woods. They were lined up and given one last chance for the guilty one to step forward. No one moved and a truck with a machine gun came by and setup in front of the men. Dad said that the setup and preparation seamed like it took forever. They were given one last chance to speak up. They all stood silent and didn't move for what he said seemed like an eternity. No shots were fired and all returned to the barracks.
Ramar

[blackthorn]

Ozo, and all who have posted to this thread---thank you! The replies seem to be mixed and I certainly understand and respect the feelings of all. I hope that my post did/does not cause anyone discomfort or anger, it was generated by the many posts in many different threads over time that expressed the wishes of some to have known more about the bad parts of friends and family that were lost forever. If my post offended anyone, I sincerely apologize.

[shdwlkr]

Well I am studying to be a mental health counselor and work with are military past, present and future.
I have talked to our combat veterans both male and female and I can tell you they do want to talk about things but not to just anyone. It is an emotional roller coaster for them and it needs to be when they want or need to let it go.

Yes they talk to me and you might ask why if you never were in the military. Nope they have not surprised me yet, see somethings you just had to experience yourself to be accepted into that group.

Nope have no medals nothing to remind me of my time in the military and if you search my military records you will find nothing either. It is all gone by my choice and No I am not sorry I removed it.

You want to know why combat veterans and their direct support personnel don't want to talk about things.

Try this on for size you kill the other side any way you can, bullets, hand grenades, burning, rockets, bombs and then you walk into that area and make sure they are dead. That is a very quick and dirty example but there are more graphic answers if needed. Does it make it easier to talk about such things NO and it never will. You want others to know about that and worse that is done so you can return home to loved ones and your country??

My most remembered time in service was standing at attention and being spit on, having garbage thrown at me and called every nasty name you can think of and could do nothing about it. Yea great thing to remember and talk about isn't it!!

I have talked to vets that will talk to no one about things they endured while in service and yes endured is a more accurate word then served. One guy I talked to related to how he and 3 others were all that made it from D-day to Berlin and yes we talked about losing buddies along the way and how it affected him, until he got so he could not feel pain, emotion or for the most part anything but killing. He came home and it took him over 2 decades to understand the new country he came home too. He was lucky his wife stayed by him all the way to the grave many many decades after he came home. His son went into the Army also and after being deployed once to combat and returning home he understood his dad much better and they had many years of good father son relationship and yes they talked but not when anyone else was around. I know of some of the talks because you see he was my first boss after leaving the farm and college and returning home from my first encounter with the military and I protected him when he would go have a liquid lunch because something reminded him of WWII and what it cost him. He would talk when few others were around asking questions of did they teach you this or that, did you see this or that and how did it make you feel, etc.

I have lost many things since returning home so many decades ago, some were wives, some were kids and most of all is I lost some of me from before I went in. I had a nightmare that haunted me for decades, I told some about it and now I have been blessed for a while it no longer haunts me for now.

My personal prayer is that when I am done with college, have my license to work with veterans that I can help at least one come really home from the military and not take their own life to get away from the memories. If I can do that the over $100,000 to licensed will money well spent.

Never ask a veteran to talk about what they saw, did, endured unless they open the door and be ready for some possible really graphic information.

[1Shirt]

Felix posts well, and is on track with his thread!
1Shirt!

[TheCelt]

Remember sitting in the squadron ready room after a mission to Laos/Cambodia. Squadron dropped about 100,000 lbs. of HP and Willie Pete on the trail the day before and were preparing to do it again. Richard Nixon came on TV and proudly exclaimed to the American people that we were NOT bombing Laos and Cambodia! That was a true *** moment if ever there was one. I think most of the BUF that didn't make it back were destroyed in-place or are now moped parts in Ho Chi Min city. Same for the THUDS (F-105s) and F-4's out of Ubon, Udorn and Tahkli.

[ozo]

Thank you Bill and Blackthorn [welcome].
And Blackthorn, I think you are perfectly fine starting this thread, and I can't see it causing the least bit discomfort to anyone. Your words and the way you use them clearly show your intention, and leaves no doubt that you care for humanity.
We all are aware that we all are different. Some will speak, some will not, some will tell only parts. I am not sure that in many cases it is even an active and conscious choice. Some things were so surreal they were beyond the capacity of belief......and imagine that in the context of a kid 18 years old, many who had never been away from home before.
It was a long time ago for me, and I don't know if it matters, but surely it must help. Sometimes I think war veterans mentally view some experiences like watching a movie, and I'm not talking about our modern day generation that grew up on x-box and video games necessarily. After you watch any movie it begins to fade slowly from mind as you begin watching the next movie, not to say certain parts of any movie you watch will not get in your mind and stick.

[Love Life]

Blackthorn- Nothing in your OP was offensive, nor did you push any wrong buttons. I have often felt the same way as you. Think of all the history on this forum ALONE. We have members who served in the Continental Navy (Bad Water Bill), WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. Tons of history. Months worth of history that is going to go unrecorded. The sad part is, that is the histtory that my generation, generation Z, and the following generations need to hear. If you look at how history is presented in text books these days it is downright startling what they do teach. Sad indeed.

Now to the older members. Not just your war or service history is important. We need your history of our country. What was it like in the 1700s (couldn't help myself), what was it like in the 1940's, 50's, 60's 70's, 80's? What was our culture like? What were the prevailing issues of your times. What was the standard of livinig? How was life in this country overall? Times before an overreaching government and a nanny state came into being?

My Granfather died way to young in his early 70's. I would sit and listen as he would describe his years growing up, and I loved it. Oh the freedoms!! The lack of worry about possibly doing something illegal due to some obscure law that was enacted without representation. A time where a man's earnings were only limited by his work ethic and not fear of over taxation. A time when only the man worked and the wife got to stay home (by choice) and be a home maker. A time when being a home maker wasn't a frowned upon position. A time when only the man NEEDED to work in order to provide a comfortable standard of living for his family.

A time when people were held accountable for their actions, regardless of age (except babies...and stuff).

A time when America was great and revered by all.

That is the history we need put down. That oral (or written history) is what we need. With the blooming of the interweb (invented by Al Gore), and as many are raised with it, many of our youth are members of all kinds of forums. Putting the history out there will show them what they are missing and what changes they need to bring about.

[unclogum bill]

So you laugh at 1700 war stories. Here's one pulled off the internet , its also written in my family history as we came here in 1732 and have records of who lost a limb and such dating back to revolutionary war. One of the players in this links to my family.On July 14, 1776, a raiding party captured three teenage girls from Boonesborough as they were floating in a canoe on the Kentucky River. They were Jemima, daughter of Daniel Boone, and Elizabeth and Frances, daughters of Colonel Richard Callaway. The Cherokee Hanging Maw led the raiders, two Cherokee and three Shawnee warriors. The girls' settlement raised alarm, and Boone organized a rescue party. Meanwhile the captors hurried the girls north toward the Shawnee towns across the Ohio River. The girls attempted to mark their trail until threatened by the Indians.
The third morning, as the Indians were building a fire for breakfast, the rescuers came up. As one Indian was shot, Jemima said, "That's Father's gun!"[citation needed] He was not immediately killed. Two of the wounded Native American men later died. The Indians retreated, leaving the girls to be taken home by the settlers.
Jemima married Flanders Callaway, who had been one of the rescuing party. Elizabeth Callaway married Samuel Henderson, and Frances married John Holder. The episode served to put the settlers in the Kentucky wilderness on guard and prevented their straying beyond the fort. Although the rescuers had feared the girls would be raped or otherwise abused, Jemima Boone said, "The Indians were kind to us, as much so as they well could have been, or their circumstances permitted."
Family version adds that Boones daughter "16 and there fore already a woman", hit one of the Indians with the canoe paddle causing a head wound, the other two girls were 14 years of age. All were married off quick after the incident.

[quilbilly]

Note to my fellow Viet Nam Vets:
Shortly after the evacuation, my ship found itself in Singapore an me reading the Straits Times in a famous old hotel bar. There was a report in the paper about a meeting of the heads-of-state of the SE Asian economic tigers of the time including Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Phillipines, and others. The leaders of Vietnam came strutting their stuff as they had beat the U.S. but were laughed out of the conference because " they were irrelevant having been drained of all resources by they U.S.". The article stated that the U.S. had won that war because there is more than one way to win a war. You can make you enemy irrelevant.
IMHO - We won that war but did it the hard way. I am proud of that and am not afraid to tell a progressive that since any of today's progressives would have support Ho and Jane Fonda. We did the same thing to the USSR in their war in Afganistan and with "star wars" (goes around comes around).
Sadly the progressives who would have supported Ho Chi Minh now run the country.
To my fellow Vietnam vets WE WON

[Dragoon 45]

I would have agreed with you about the VA 8 years ago, but the VA here is swamped and will not hire additional personnel to handle the increased patient load. The closest VA Hospital was built in the mid 1940's and should have been replaced decades ago. I have been on a waiting list for over 6 months for a simple referral to a pain management clinic for a steriod shot for my back where I had major surgery on it after being injuried in combat, my patience with the VA is about exhausted. I do not want pain pills which they keep shoveling at me on a monthly basis, just trying to get a simple steroid shot should not take 6 months to get. Every answer from the VA is to take more pills, they will not do anything to treat the underlying condition.

[QUOTE=snuffy;2395155]

I am glad your experiences are more positive but there is a huge difference between your experiences and mine. I had over 31 years total service when I retired in Dec 2004. I see little difference in how servicemembers were treated in 1973 vice how they are treated now. Oh, people are a little more polite about it today, but they look down their noses at servicemembers and veterans as much today as they did in 1973. And to give a little indication of things to come, wait till you have to deal with the VA, you will quickly learn to cringe every time you hear that "Thank You for Your Service" as you are about to be screwed over big time by the VA. Or even better when you are applying for a civilian job and you hear that phrase when you are told you didn't get the job, because they hired someone less qualified than you because they were not a veteran.[/QUOT]

I'm sorry your experience with the VA is so bad. I'm under care with the VA, and I'm very happy with the care I get. On par with the best hospitals in my area. I'm diabetic, have had prostate surgery, care for my heart condition, and many therapies and surgeries relating to the above conditions.

My prescriptions cost only a 10 buck co-pay, otherwise they'd cast me thousands each month. Average cost overall each year is 1 thousand bucks.

If not for the VA, I just couldn't live like I am, I'd be eating Ramon noodles 3X-day.

[Recluse]

A lot of vets simply want to forget.