simple Hi-Tek coating

[Love Life]

Yep. Those are overcooked.

9 minutes(ish) gives me a nice gold color to the coating.

[Ausglock]

i dont see why members do the oppisite of what ausglock says. If your oven does not work go buy a convection oven at K-mart. 12 mins is not 8 or 10. I prob could have got bad oven but it works and it could go down in the future. I bought a oven temp gage today but with stain coat you usually can see if its finished. First thing donnie told me was: cook 8 mins @375. Hi-tek has said thin coats and used words stained instead of coated.

Gunslick. 12 minutes isn't the problem. It would be the temp.
I have baked for 12 minutes with the blue/green at 195Deg C with no problems, other than the green going really dark.
I'd Say that Golfhack's temp was in the 300 to 350Deg C area.

And yes, We are all still learning.
I thought I had it down pat until I tried the latest Blue coatings and it would still wipe off. I started to question my methods and re-visited the process with the red/copper and the blue/green. This verified that my mixing and baking process was correct. The issue was the experimental blue coating. A chemical reaction between the blue and the resin prevented it from curing correctly.

Golfhack. Mate, just try another lot. only this time try a smaller handful of bullets

Be ware that HI-TEK has produced a 3 extreme catalyst for testing. So far it is working great. super easy sizing, but it doesn't work with all colours available. I am firing bullets coated with the 3 Extreme cat this sunday. they are red/copper and a Glitter Bronze coloured coating.

[golfhack]

Yes,

It was too hot, but it wasn't anywhere close to 300-350 Deg C. I did use an oven thermometer, which read 385 Deg F (196 Deg C) when I put the bullets in. I think what happened is that I did not wait long enough and that the temperature was still climbing. I had it set to about 410 after reading that most folks using toaster ovens had to set indicated temp higher in order to get an actual 375. Donnie had also indicated that I might have to set the temperature a little higher if I was using a toaster oven. When it hit 385 and stayed there for a while, I figured I was good. My guess is that my cheap Black and Decker actually hit 410 degrees - who knew it would be so accurate!

The bullets are not too bad, just some minor leading in the last inch of the barrel - fairly straightforward to clean out using Choreboy wrapped around a bore brush. I'll probably use up the remaining batch in 2-3 action pistol practice or range sessions. Besides, it gives me an excuse - if I suck at action pistol practice I'll just blame it on the bullets

For the next test I'll wait 30 minutes to make sure the oven temperature is stabilized at 375 before I put the bullets in, I'll keep it in for just 8 minutes, and I'll use a MUCH smaller test batch.

[golfhack]

Oops,

I should clarify that oven thermometer read 400 Degrees during the first coat, so I adjusted the temp for the second coat to where it read 385 degrees when I put them in. It was probably the first coat that over-heated everything.

[Ausglock]

Golfhack.
Do me a favour?

Before you coat the next lot of bullets, Place them in a container and give them a bath in Acetone for 5 minutes. Swirl them around and then drain off the acetone and let the bullets dry. Have a look at the acetone to see if there is any colour in it.
As you said that the bullets come pre-sized, I'm wondering if there is some type of sizing lube left on the bullets that would cause the coating not to stick correctly.
HI-TEK makes a mold release agent that will not interfere with his coating.
I'm wondering if the company that made your bullets may have used something.

Just running it through my head.......

[HI-TEK]

Golfhack.
Do me a favour?

Before you coat the next lot of bullets, Place them in a container and give them a bath in Acetone for 5 minutes. Swirl them around and then drain off the acetone and let the bullets dry. Have a look at the acetone to see if there is any colour in it.
As you said that the bullets come pre-sized, I'm wondering if there is some type of sizing lube left on the bullets that would cause the coating not to stick correctly.
HI-TEK makes a mold release agent that will not interfere with his coating.
I'm wondering if the company that made your bullets may have used something.

Just running it through my head.......

Just for additional information.
Coatings should not be used on pre-sized projectiles.
If projectiles are pre-sized, the sizing process seals the surface of alloy and coating adhesion/bonding is greatly affected.
Tests done previously on dry, clean pre-sized projectiles , showed that the coating will not adhere to alloy even if clean.
It seems, that during sizing, the alloy surface becomes sealed and the coating has nowhere to penetrate and stick.
If during sizing, if any lubes are used, like waxes and other, it would also cause coating to not stick to alloy.
Rinsing with solvents, may clean metal from lubricants used during sizing, but also, not completely.
Unless projectiles are vapour de-greased, I have doubts that in many instances, all lube components can be removed, unless solvent washes are done many times.
The solvent used to remove sizing lubes, should remove all lube components from alloy surface to have any chance of coating to stick..

You really need to ask your projectile supplier to supply you as is cast alloy, then coat them and bake, and size using the coated projectiles to your required diameter.
( this should reduce cost of your supplied product also)

If you test first coat and it stays put with smash test, and solvent wipe, then coat second time.
If first coat does not stick or washes off projectiles, don't coat a second time, as it wont fix problem with first coating not sticking, and second coat will strip off first coating , making a mess and finish will look bad.

[hawaii five-0]

I seem to have to bake my Lee 230 grain blackout boolits longer to get the color change. 12 or 13 minutes seems to do it. Not sure if because they are heavy rifle boolits, or Im over filling the tray. I have two temp gauges and a Hamilton Beach oven(convection). Boolits come out great

[golfhack]

Just for additional information.
Coatings should not be used on pre-sized projectiles.
If projectiles are pre-sized, the sizing process seals the surface of alloy and coating adhesion/bonding is greatly affected.
Tests done previously on dry, clean pre-sized projectiles , showed that the coating will not adhere to alloy even if clean.
It seems, that during sizing, the alloy surface becomes sealed and the coating has nowhere to penetrate and stick.
If during sizing, if any lubes are used, like waxes and other, it would also cause coating to not stick to alloy.
Rinsing with solvents, may clean metal from lubricants used during sizing, but also, not completely.
Unless projectiles are vapour de-greased, I have doubts that in many instances, all lube components can be removed, unless solvent washes are done many times.
The solvent used to remove sizing lubes, should remove all lube components from alloy surface to have any chance of coating to stick..

You really need to ask your projectile supplier to supply you as is cast alloy, then coat them and bake, and size using the coated projectiles to your required diameter.
( this should reduce cost of your supplied product also)

If you test first coat and it stays put with smash test, and solvent wipe, then coat second time.
If first coat does not stick or washes off projectiles, don't coat a second time, as it wont fix problem with first coating not sticking, and second coat will strip off first coating , making a mess and finish will look bad.

Hello Hi-Tek,

For the original batch of bullets, I asked the vendor to provide the bullets sized but unlubed. To confirm, are you saying that the actual mechanical act of sizing the bullet seals it even if lube is not used? Out of curiosity, what is causing the surface to seal?

If this is the case, I will need to change my new order of bullets to have them sent straight out of the mold, no sizing or lube. I will also slug my barrel and order a Lee bullet sizing die. A bit more work than expected, but I got a half-liter of Hi-Tek coating so guess I'm committed to finding a solution.


Thanks to you and Ausglock for your help. Stay tuned....

[gunoil]

Just get a magma star, just 800 dollars. I would say hi tek nailed it, i stain,cook, then size. Really get slick and pretty. My new mold has no luberings, worked out really good.

Whats your handicap golfhack?
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/...psfd9aa27f.mp4

[leadman]

I have tried coating boolits that I had cleaned a wax based lube off of and it did not work well. If you have to install gas checks on a boolit and use the Lee push thru dies try and use a die that is bigger than the boolit. I install GCs on a .310" boolit with a .314" sizing die and it works fine.
I know some here have installed the GCs after coating but this caused the GC to damage the coating and/or the base of the boolit because it was too tight.
I also run the GCd boolits in some acetone to remove anything that might be on them like oil from my hands before coating. I can't stand to wear rubber gloves or nitrile.

[gunoil]

how good does hiteksupercoat stick to copper gas checks?

[olaf455]

how good does hiteksupercoat stick to copper gas checks?

The HT Gold sticks to copper checks fine.

[golfhack]

Just get a magma star, just 800 dollars. I would say hi tek nailed it, i stain,cook, then size. Really get slick and pretty. My new mold has no luberings, worked out really good.

Whats your handicap golfhack?
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/...psfd9aa27f.mp4

How about this: my Lee bullet sizing die on order for your magma star, straight trade. Deal?

Handicap.....I would tell you but I can't count that high. There is a reason I am shooting now instead of playing golf...I suck at both but my bullets go straighter than my golf balls.

[golfhack]

Don't know it it's supercoat but the green sticks to Hornady GC fine. I don't clean mine in anything. I store in clean peanut jars, apply GC with large sizer, coat & size, load. I have NOT done the smash test on a coated GCd boolit. I scraped a couple with a pocket knife, the coating comes off with a layer of lead. My perspiration must be toxic as I leave permanent finger prints on a waxed table top. I have to Pledge all my guns to prevent rust.

When you apply the GC with the large sizer, are you also sizing the bullet? If so, it seems that the coating is still sticking fine in your case.

[HI-TEK]

Hello Hi-Tek,

For the original batch of bullets, I asked the vendor to provide the bullets sized but unlubed. To confirm, are you saying that the actual mechanical act of sizing the bullet seals it even if lube is not used? Out of curiosity, what is causing the surface to seal?


If this is the case, I will need to change my new order of bullets to have them sent straight out of the mold, no sizing or lube. I will also slug my barrel and order a Lee bullet sizing die. A bit more work than expected, but I got a half-liter of Hi-Tek coating so guess I'm committed to finding a solution.


Thanks to you and Ausglock for your help. Stay tuned....

[Reply: How are you doing golfhack.
What seems to happen, is that the crystalline surface produced when casting, after sizing, becomes sealed with metal so the surface is very slick.
In many coating applications, companies recommend chemical etching or sandblasting of surfaces to get good adhesion as it produces a rough finish after etching and or blasting.
In our case, newly cast alloy is good enough to receive coating and bond strongly.]

[leadman]

Sizing a boolit has a burnishing effect on the surface and making the surface extremely smooth. I always cast wanting my boolits to be frosted. This gives me good fillout and a rough surface for the coating to stick to.
The Red Copper will get scraped on the gaschecks sometimes in a sizer, seems to depend on how much I have to size it down.
An example of how much friction a gc creates when firing a gun I had the same 180gr boolit with and without gcs, same load, primers, cases, powder charge, oal, coating, and same gun. The gc'd boolits were 50fps slower across the Chrony.

[Stephen Cohen]

Im glad I could not find a sizer in .375 or I would have sized first. This is a fantastic thread great info.

[golfhack]

Leadman/Hi-Tek,

Thanks - it makes sense, great information. Hope this helps others looking to use Hi-Tek but not yet casting their own bullets. It should be relatively simple for me to source unsized/unlubed bullets since it saves the supplier an extra step. I re-read the threads and it does not appear that my temperature was excessive so I do think it was the burnishing effect from pre-sizing the bullets. I look forward to trying it again as soon as I get my next batch.

[HI-TEK]

The HT Gold sticks to copper checks fine.

There are a few in Aus, that use the Hi-Tek on Jacketed ammo, so the Copper does not foul up barrel.
After shooting bore is clean and no Copper has to be scrubbed out.

[Thompsoncustom]

Hmmm thanks for the info I'll be sure to frost the next batch of bullets I try.

Another Update:

Tired 4.8grs of Unique instead of bulleyes eye with the pure COWW coated bullets and still leading just the same.

Gonna get a oven temp thermometer just so I know exactly what the temp I'm cooking at is. Also gonna switch to the glock 17 from here out just to change platforms. Good news is a got all the coating out of the CZ barrel bad news is there is a small amount of pitting in there, you can't see it by holding it up to a light but it's there none the less. Tho the glock leaded last time to and it's next to brand new and shows to pitting so I'm still completely lost of what the problem might be.