10 m/m or 40 s&w

[Lloyd Smale]

william i sure do agree with you. I was allways a glock hater up till about 5 years ago. I bought my first a 23 and developed respect for it and ended up buying a couple more glocks. They will NEVER replace my 1911s though. Ive grown up with a 1911 in my hands and have shot probably a million rounds through them over the years and anymore they just match up with my brain and work automaticaly and i just shoot them better. I agree too that probably the biggest downside to glocks are there triggers. mine have had work done on them but there still a far cry from a masaged 1911 trigger. But ill say this. If **** hit the fan tommarow and i could only grab one gun to run with it would be my 23. I dont think its ever missed a beat and i dont remember the last time ive cleaned it but theres been THOUSANDS of rounds of good old dirty cast bullets through it and about all i do with it is give it a squirt of oil on the rails once in a while. I guess one of these days im going to have to clean it but its gotten to the point that i almost want it to stumble once first. Might be a few more years kind of like comparing a new camero to an old 70 chevelle ls6. The camero gives great performance and all you have to do is add gas and go. The ls6 gives great performance but is a bit finiky and needs a bit of wrench time to keep running at its peak. But which would you rather have when down town crusing the strip?

[Shiloh]

I would go with 40 S&W is it was me and I only had one choice.

+1

Shiloh

[WilliamDahl]

william i sure do agree with you. I was allways a glock hater up till about 5 years ago. I bought my first a 23 and developed respect for it and ended up buying a couple more glocks. They will NEVER replace my 1911s though. Ive grown up with a 1911 in my hands and have shot probably a million rounds through them over the years and anymore they just match up with my brain and work automaticaly and i just shoot them better. I agree too that probably the biggest downside to glocks are there triggers. mine have had work done on them but there still a far cry from a masaged 1911 trigger.

It's not that I ever *hated* the Glocks, just that I wasn't one of the Glock fanboys (who thought that they were the best thing ever and that they could do no wrong). I do not subscribe to the idea that their "trigger safety" is any sort of true safety. If I put my finger on the trigger, pull it, and the gun fires, then it has no safety as far as I'm concerned. I would say that a Glock is slightly less safe than a DA revolver. The reason that I would say that the DA revolver is safer is that the trigger pull is heavier. From an engineering standpoint, I like handguns that have a bit more metal in them than the Glocks do. The Glocks are functional and reliable, but not a piece of engineering art. They work and for some people that is all they want.

[Lloyd Smale]

never was one to worry to much about safetys. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and no gun will go off. I carried a detonics combat master 1911 for years that was a single action and had no safety whatsoever. Not even a grip safety and never had one bit of problem with it being unsafe.

[WilliamDahl]

never was one to worry to much about safetys. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and no gun will go off. I carried a detonics combat master 1911 for years that was a single action and had no safety whatsoever. Not even a grip safety and never had one bit of problem with it being unsafe.

From what I understand, the Detonics was intended to be carried with the hammer down and not in Condition 1. Never owned one, but I thought they also had the normal thumb safety. The photos that I see of them on the web make it appear that they have a thumb safety.



The issue that I have is not so much whether a gun has a safety or not, but rather that Glock considers their trigger to be a safety. A safety is to prevent the gun from firing if you pull the trigger. That does not happen on the Glocks. With a Glock you have to be a bit more careful in your selection of your holster so that the trigger is completely enclosed to minimize the chance of an AD. I would not choose to put the Glock in a fanny pack holster, but it does sit nicely in some of the Kydex type holsters. I have a Fobus paddle holster and an actual Glock brand holster for my 10mm. I find the Fobus to be a noticeably more comfortable and quicker to draw than the Glock holster. It's still not as comfortable as a good leather holster though.

[Lloyd Smale]

they made them both with and without safetys through the years. The way i carried mine and the way i saw alot using them was to carry them cocked and use a break away strap between the hammer and frame.

[WilliamDahl]

they made them both with and without safetys through the years. The way i carried mine and the way i saw alot using them was to carry them cocked and use a break away strap between the hammer and frame.

So, a SA M1911 light trigger and NO safety whatsoever? I think I'll pass on that. Or I would have just carried it uncocked.

[6bg6ga]

Guys I'm learning a lot in this thread. Several weeks ago I purchased a used 23 and just the other day I purchased a used 20. The 20 had a total of 22 rounds thru it. If I understand correctly you can shoot 40cal in a 10mm? I have about 500 rounds of 10mm that came with my 10 along with 3 extra mags. I was never a Glock lover but was impressed with the fact that you can drive over it and it still shoots fine. The trigger safety had me wondering until I took the Glock apart. While its different I feel perfectly safe carring it loaded ready to go. As one that never puts a finger inside the trigger guard I'm fine with the mechanics. I own several 1911's at the moment and have owned a number of them over the years. If push came to shove I would reach for either the model 23 or the 20. I haven't shot the 20 yet.

[Oreo]

You can shoot 40sw in the 10mm barrel but that's not what it was designed to do and I advise against it.

Lots of people incorrectly state that in the G20 the cases "headspace" on the extractor. The cases headspace on the mouth of the case like any other but in the case of running 40sw in the g20 the extractor just holds them there with enough tension that the firing pin will ignite the primer. The term "headspacing" is not correct for that.

People also state that you can load a 40sw case to 10mm OAL and use a 10mm charge. There is SOME truth to that but you really must research the issue and understand it completely to do it safely. File it under "Advanced reloaded techniques". 40sw cases do NOT in fact have the same pressure rating as 10mm cases, not all bullets/boolits will work for this, poor case tension can allow bullet setback and thus pressure spikes and KBs. If you really want to understand it you need to read the threads dedicated to it. Don't just go off of one or two happenstance posts in an unrelated thread. Drink deep or taste not!

[sargenv]

The 610 ain't all its cracked up to be. First, the step in the chamber shaves lead when shooting shorter cartridges like the 40sw. It would do it with the 10mm if the cylinder was bored out for 10mm mag. And 10mm mag has almost no load data available at all.

I don't know about the shaving bullet thing with the shorter cased 40 S&W.. I've been using a -2 model since they came out.. the last 100,000 rounds I've fired with it (USPSA/ICORE competition @ 8-15k/year for over 10 years) and I can't tell the difference between the 10 and 40 brass. I've loaded them short, long, in between, and I can't tell the difference..

The gun simply shoots and shoots.. I've loaded the ammo hot, not so hot, and mouse fart.. It keeps shooting and shooting.. I know several people in my area with various flavors and models of this revolver and so far I can't find anyone that doesn't like it.

I fire it at competition distances from 3-50 yards.. If there is anyone out there that has fired more ammo through any other 610 than me, I'd be surprised.. The Glock is fun to shoot (in 10 mm) but there seem to be even fewer 20's or the sub compact models out there than the 610.. I would still highly reccommend the 610 as a viable platform.. with 40's or the rare as hen's teeth 10 mm brass.

[Oreo]

I didn't mean to say the 610 was a bad gun. I believe it is a wonderful gun as you say. What I meant to say was that if you were going to buy one revolver there are probably better choices of cartridge when you consider utility and other details. For me, a 44mag was a better choice.

Now if you've got the money to spend and already have your utility bases covered, by all means, buy and enjoy the 610.

[TheGrimReaper]

Hi,
Hatch is right,but I hate the 40 and LOVE the 10MM! Go figure!

Me too!!! LOVE me some 10MM!!!

[sargenv]

Oreo,

Fair enough

The 610 has been kind to me.. firing it at the IRC has won me a 657, a 686+, and a custom Ruger 10-22.. the 657 will be going with me back to the IRC next year if I can get a 4 cav RN mold made up in time..

[thomashoward]

You can shoot 40sw in the 10mm barrel but that's not what it was designed to do and I advise against it.

Lots of people incorrectly state that in the G20 the cases "headspace" on the extractor. The cases headspace on the mouth of the case like any other but in the case of running 40sw in the g20 the extractor just holds them there with enough tension that the firing pin will ignite the primer. The term "headspacing" is not correct for that.

People also state that you can load a 40sw case to 10mm OAL and use a 10mm charge. There is SOME truth to that but you really must research the issue and understand it completely to do it safely. File it under "Advanced reloaded techniques". 40sw cases do NOT in fact have the same pressure rating as 10mm cases, not all bullets/boolits will work for this, poor case tension can allow bullet setback and thus pressure spikes and KBs. If you really want to understand it you need to read the threads dedicated to it. Don't just go off of one or two happenstance posts in an unrelated thread. Drink deep or taste not!

This is right on.
Don't believe everything you hear. Just because you CAN for a short while does not mean you should.Semi autos headspace on the mouth of the case ,hence the TAPER crimp.

[ss30378]

Also i will point out that shooting a 40 s&w in a 10mm chamber you will lose 50-100fps depending on the load. There is enough room for gas to leak out around the bullet in the oversized chamber. While ive never shot cast bullets from a 40in a 10mm chamber I believe this could have the potential to cause heavy leading. The best solution and the one I went with was get a 40 cal barrel and throat it to 10mm length. That way you still have proper head spacing, and no fps loss or leading potential from a sloppy chamber fit. Works like a charm and I can match 10mm ballistics with heavy bullets that are long enough to seat to 10mm OAL and still have a good crimp. As far as strength of case goes the 40 case is stronger than the 10mm since it has a small primer pocket vs the large on the 10. Either case is strong enough for the job of even beyond max book loads the key is in chamber support. Glock factory barrels are known to have bad support as well as the delta elites so bulged/blown brass is a real possibility with hot loads. In glocks go with a good aftermarket barrel with good support. Lone wolf used to be good and cheap for this but their recent production chamber and feed ramp cut leaves as much case unsported as the factory barrel.

[grumman581]

To save a bit of typing, I'm going to propose a new identifier -- .40HL -- (.40 Hot & Long) -- to indicate a 10mm powder charge placed in .40SW brass and fired in a 10mm barrel. If anyone knows of an existing identifier for this combination, feel free to correct me.

I've been shooting a G29 with normal 10mm and .40SW out of the factory barrel. I've also tried the HL40 technique and it has worked. I did not notice any bulging of the brass. I think that the Glock 10mm does not have the bulging issue that the .40 barrel is noted for. I recently added a G20 to my collection and it handles all three types of ammo acceptably also. I don't consider it any different than shooting .38special rounds in a .357mag.

One thing that I noticed recently with the G20 while shooting the .40HL rounds was that it was placing the empty brass right by my right foot. I was standing on asphalt, so some of the pieces of brass would hit a rock and bounce a couple of feet off, but others were actually landing base down and just sitting there. Probably just a freak occurrence given the powder charge that I was using.

[Mohillbilly]

For fun ,paper punching as you said , do the .40S&W . cheaper available brass , reduced recoil , more trigger time and less powder use each shot at the same speed . The off side is more trigger time brings more lead use and more primer use ........ and there are more used .40s so maybe a less expensive gun .....

[grumman581]

For fun ,paper punching as you said , do the .40S&W . cheaper available brass , reduced recoil , more trigger time and less powder use each shot at the same speed . The off side is more trigger time brings more lead use and more primer use ........ and there are more used .40s so maybe a less expensive gun .....

I think it depends upon whether you are going to go with a Glock or not. If you are going with a Glock, then it makes sense to go with the 10mm (G20 or G29). If you are going with another manufacturer, then you might not be able to shoot a .40SW round in a 10mm chamber, so it makes economical sense to just go with the .40SW. Plus, you can go with any of the cheaper .40SW handguns since there are a lot more companies making .40SW handguns than 10mm ones.

There's not really a price difference on the .40SW vs 10mm Glock, so I don't really see a reason why someone would choose the .40SW Glock over the 10mm one. It also seems to me that the 10mm / .40HL has a less snappy recoil than the .40SW round when loaded to the same velocities. Has anyone else noticed this?

[xacex]

I am curious about the Glock 29 barrel in a Glock 30. I have read that you need to adjust the extractor a little and the hood is not as wide, but it works. Then there are the glock 30 to 10mm conversion barrels out there too. If a Glock 29 barrel works in a 30, why not use a glock 29 conversion barrel for say .357 sig, or 9x25 in a Glock 30? All you need is a barrel and a mag. It would be nice to have a .45ACP,10mm(.40 S&W), 45 super,460 Rowland,357 sig, 9x25 Dillon, 400 Corbon capable firearm in one package.

[xacex]

For an update I did try a Glock 29 357 sig barrel in the Glock 30, and have been using it for over a year. It works well with a standard G29 magazine, but just like the 10 mm conversion barrels you may want to modify the pad that limits the grab on the extractor. This is a common practice with the 45acp to 10 mm conversion on the Glocks. Without doing this the extractor claw barely grabs the smaller case, but it is only a problem when hand cycling and not while functioning under fire.