460v s&w magnum with 405 fn

[Whiterabbit]

I thought this guy ended up with RR's molds

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...index&cPath=71

but I don't see that TC bullet there. mold must have ended up somewhere else.

[donald150]

bummer, must be a custom. most TC's I see do not have that steepness of slope.

And frankly, I don't care how strong you are loading them, methinks your expander plug is too big. I've never had a bullet jump crimp unless it was lead that was "too soft" cast in a bullet that was "too light" that was shot "too fast" with no gas check.I think you have insufficient case tension cause wow that's alotta crimp! You can tell in my pic I don't crimp at all.

I never thought of the expander being too large. All of the 535's I have are already loaded anyway. My 300's don't jump out.
As for the slope on the 300's, they leave a .60cal hole in 1/4" steel. The 535's just put a big dent in it.
The 300's only have slightly more kick than the 535's.

[donald150]

I thought this guy ended up with RR's molds

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...index&cPath=71

but I don't see that TC bullet there. mold must have ended up somewhere else.

I thought he mostly just took the 500 magnum molds.
I know i read that other molds went to other people.

[Whiterabbit]

I noticed the same with lead, penetration on STEEL is based only on speed. the 740's splatter, no dent, looks like a big 22lr pock mark. my 300 LEEs cast soft and shot at 2000 fps from an inline muzzleloader will leave quite a dent.

It would be interesting to see the difference on flesh.

[DrCaveman]

Donald

Check out this mold from accurate

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=45-275B-D.png

It may not have quite as steep a pitch on the nose, but with GC, lube and a modified alloy ill bet it ends up around 300 gr. I still generally prefer a fn design but the TC boolits get a lot of praise

Great discussion guys, thanks. Keep it coming!

[donald150]

Thanks, I like the look of that Accurate mold. I just might have to get one.

Here are pics of the Ranger rick bullets that I have. These are pics from his old web site. The last one is his load data.

BTW: Look at how tight he crimps his


I also have another 460 round that i really want to work on but im concerned about my safety . I posted it in another thread as to not fully hijack this one.

Crazy 460 round HERE

[DrCaveman]

Finally got a chance to shoot these, Dad was heading through town and he had never shot a 460, so it was great for both of us.

I bought some factory hornady 200 gr FTX bullets to compare to my handloads. And just to see what the engineers intended for this round.

Apparently they intended for a $#|+load of unburned powder to come out the muzzle! Ha ha what a waste! What a glorious, fun 20 rounds of pure waste! Thank heavens that i am a reloader and will put that brass to good use in the future.

My hands felt a serious amount of heat from those factory loads. Cylinder gap gas escape, im guessing. No wonder that person destroyed their thumb. And accuracy was piss-poor with those loads. At least, neither of us were able to strike a balance between the roar of the boolit launch and recoil management. Chrono showed a whopping 2175 fps for that bullet out of 5" barrel.

Bad news OVER!

My 405 gr loads shot much nicer than the factory fodder. My 300 gr GC loads were hot, but nothing like the factory loads.

Here's some data

Load: 21.5 gr alliant 2400
Velocities: 932, 968, 1030, 1035, 1105
Note: medium kick...too much velocity variation to trust for precision

Load: 23.0 alliant 2400
Velocities: 1118, 1120, 1154
Note: not much more kick than previous load, boolits on target, velocity spread good so far

Load: 25.0 alliant 2400
Velocities: 1202, 1215, 1242
Note: decent kick, not too bad, accuracy better than previous two loads. This was my 'target' velocity, and it looks like a winner

Also shot my new 300 gr GC boolit, by Lee.

Load: 39 gr h110
Velocities: 1613, 1617. Lots of errors on the chrony with this load, maybe too much muzzle blast. Significantly louder and more punchy than the 405 loads, but still managable. Accuracy was so-so, due mostly to operator error. But it beat the hell out of the pine round holding up my target...split the sucker down the middle.


Im not posting any target pics as it is not useful. The take home lesson here is that:

-405 gr boolit with 25 gr of 2400 in the 460 magnum is quite OK. Could probably go higher...but probably will not
-300 gr boolit launched 400 fps faster may possess ~500 ft lb energy more than the 405, but is tougher to manage
-factory 200 gr loads do not hold a candle to either one of these as far as usability, in terms of being able to shoot enough to become proficient and prudent wear & tear on the gun. Also they made my head hurt after shooting a full cylinder worth. No ear ringing but definitely a throb in my brain. Didnt last long, but hey, why subject myself to that when i can kick just as much *** using something less painful?

I am happy with the momentum and TKO calcs for my better loads. I think i may scrap h110 in favor of 2400 for all loads from here on out. So sweet shooting. They feel like the hammer of Thor vs the laser of...i dunno, aqua man?

Now, just need to get my pound and a half of 2400 backed up by a few more pounds...but that aint been seen since december around here.

[Whiterabbit]

I seriously doubt the velocities in that pic above. My BFR will mic faster than a 12" S&W and my BFR does 1300-1400 fps with a 550 grain bullet with 26 gr of H110. This guy is saying 1900 fps with 15% less powder? No way.

"-factory 200 gr loads do not hold a candle to either one of these as far as usability, in terms of being able to shoot enough to become proficient and prudent wear & tear on the gun. Also they made my head hurt after shooting a full cylinder worth. No ear ringing but definitely a throb in my brain. Didnt last long, but hey, why subject myself to that when i can kick just as much *** using something less painful?"

I am SO with you on this one. Your 400 grain loads are just far more civilized. That's truly IMO the only word to describe the difference in shooting each load. Wouldn't you agree?

[DrCaveman]

Yeah, i felt like the 405 loads were a proper, thumping, managable load to shoot.

The factory 200 gr seemed like it was trying to be something it's not, like a magnum rifle round or something. Or maybe it is kind of a gimmick, a claim to fame for shooting the fastest handgun cartridge.

Or maybe i am trying to make this gun into something it is not. But, So far, i think i am on the right track and this gun is a shooter with 405 gr lead and 2400

[Whiterabbit]

Totally agree it is a gimmick. There's just too much powder in there for the short barrel. I have to wonder what it would do in a barrel like a handi buffalo carbine with the LONG barrel, but in a pistol there's just no reason for it. My BFR has double the barrel of your S&W and 52 grains of H110, well....

[Markbo]

Dr.Caveman, I sure wish you would specify which bullets you are using in your detailed load data. Without the bullet, it is hard to be certain which one(s) you are talking about. "Here's some load data" are all 405gr and "Also shot my new 300 gr GC boolit" is the 39 gr h110??

Also do you happen to have a pic of that 405gr Lee? Is it FP or HP?

[gofastman]

Dr.Caveman, I sure wish you would specify which bullets you are using in your details load data. Without the bullet, it is hard to be certain which one(s) you are talking about. "Here's some load data" are all 405gr and "Also shot my new 300 gr GC boolit" is the 39 gr h110??

you should re-read the thread.
both bullets are Lee designs

[DrCaveman]

Dr.Caveman, I sure wish you would specify which bullets you are using in your detailed load data. Without the bullet, it is hard to be certain which one(s) you are talking about. "Here's some load data" are all 405gr and "Also shot my new 300 gr GC boolit" is the 39 gr h110??

Also do you happen to have a pic of that 405gr Lee? Is it FP or HP?

405 gr Lee boolit is 457-405-f (90374). It drops from mould about .458-.459"

All loads with 2400 used the above mentioned boolit.

300 gr Lee boolit is C452-300-rf (90359). It dropped about .4217-.4527" (yeah sucks, undersized...thats kinda why i think the 405 gr will be the winner).

The h110 load used that 300 gr boolit, with gas check.

Both boolits were dip-lubed in lithi-bee-ivory (dont ask) and then push-sized to .4525"

Im thinking of a new load with the 300 gr, something north of 25 grains of 2400. Gonna have to crunch a few numbers to find a good start point

[Markbo]

you should re-read the thread.
both bullets are Lee designs

You should re-read my post. That's not what I asked.

DrCaveman have you considered the 405gr with a gas check or do you think it not necessary at that velocity range? I'm wondering too if that 300gr wouldn't be more accurate if it were say .454"?
And lastly have you tried the 405gr at .454" instead of .452"?

[DrCaveman]

Markbo

I currently do not own any 405 gr molds with gas check, so its not a consideration at this time. Further, i see nothing about my 405gr-1200fps loads which would warrant the use of GC based on boolit base deformation (i recovered a couple) nor leading in the barrel. I think the accuracy will just have to be dialed in. Time will tell

As for .454", i dont have a sizer at that diameter. When checking my sized .4525" boolits in the cylinder for 'a snug push through the throat, using only finger pressure', not a single boolit would go through without a solid rod & hammer whack.

So i dont think that .454" would fare any better than what i am doing. Hey, it works out well, same size as my 1911!

[Markbo]

Thanks for the info. Keep us posted on the 300gr though. I just have to think (maybe I just want to believe) that you will find an accurate load. I got some checking to do on mine I guess.

[DrCaveman]

Got out and tried some more heavies today. I am really liking this gun.

I blasted 15 of my stout 25 gr load of 2400 behind the 405 fn. This load is looking like the keeper, i got the full cylinder on paper each time. When i really locked in on the target and controlled my breathing, it shot like a laser...right where i pointed it.

I must admit at this point that this gun is taking a bit of work to shoot well. It is my first large bore handgun and im not gonna lie: i have a bit of a flinch. Even though i know that round 6 is an empty (5 round cylinder) i still push down to the right after the click. As with all things i assume it takes training/practice, and the correct kind. Im trying to do my homework to help make sure this gun doesnt ruin me for shooting other handguns.

Mixing in the 45 auto and some 38 spl while doing shooting tests seems a good way to keep oneself flexible. My goal is to not anticipate the shot at all...not a very lofty goal for a seasoned shooter but i am still in training.

I tried a load with the 300 GC boolit (lee) in front of 28 gr 2400. It clocked at just under 1500 fps and shot like a freakin laser also...when i kept hold on target. This load was the most snappy of the day, and very loud.

I also bumped up the 405 fn load to 26.5 gr of 2400. This clocked at 1300 fps, seems to be just the load for buffalo extermination. Too bad there arent any wandering the tree farms of oregon. In any case it shot as well as the 25 gr load, without a noticable increase in recoil or noise. I think ill try a showdown between these two loads next week. No unburned powder for either load.

The experience here with the 405 gr at lower velocity vs the 300 at higher velocities has got me wondering about a threshold of handgun velocity above which the muzzle blast and noise outweigh the actual physical recoil. It seems to be around 1400 as best i can tell, since my 357 mag loads which fall under that spec seem gentle, while the ones above that seem much more punishing.

I guess i must be more of the type that likes the boom of thunder more than the crack of lightning. In wrestling i was more likely to push you around and toss you in a head-and-arm than to dance circles and score a takedown with a single leg. In football i loved it when the offense would run an Iso right at me...id get to smash the fullback AND the tailback. But a triple option sucked because you couldnt really lay into anyone, they could just pitch it. And yeh, the shotput is waaay more my style than javelin.

I guess this whole thing, for me, is finding my comfort zone, then enjoying it. So far my comfort zone is the lee 405 fn and 2400...at stout levels. I could shoot either the 25 gr or the 26.5 gr load all day long. Just need more brass and money for lead!

[DrCaveman]

Im considering bumping up the charge for the 405 fn load a bit, maybe gunning for just under 1400 fps if the pressure is right.

Anyone have data for a 28.0 gr load of 2400 in a 460 magnum, OAL 2.24" and boolit length of 1.02"?

Thanks a bunch.

[donald150]

Im considering bumping up the charge for the 405 fn load a bit, maybe gunning for just under 1400 fps if the pressure is right.

Anyone have data for a 28.0 gr load of 2400 in a 460 magnum, OAL 2.24" and boolit length of 1.02"?

Thanks a bunch.

Do you have any Idea what the hardness is on the lead you are using?

I know some people don't put much stock in testing the hardness but I'm just getting started so I bought a tester.
The hardest lead I currently have is about a 15BHN. I might add that my 405gr mold is a GC mold.

I think I said this before but I received a bunch of 405 gr bullets with the mold and if I remember right, they tested over 20BHN.

Im just wondering what you are using.

I need to see if I even have 2400 powder. Im looking for a load for this round but will most likely have to use whatever powder I have on hand because the shelves are empty around here.

[Markbo]

I am also curious if you can find a really accurate load with that 405gr closer to 1000fps. It would be relatively mild shooting and should still penetrate tremendously. I haven't yet been able to hunt buffalo so my targets are deer and pigs.