Hornday or Dillion

[JSH]

I think most of the smoothness and ease of operation of the dillons is because of the built in rattle/slop in the tool head. Look at the dies dillon recommends. They have a taper to them at the mouth. The H lnl is solid and no rattle. Yes it does tack a little tweaking here and there but my end results on my groups is what I am after.
I experienced more run out than I deemed acceptable with the 550. The 450 was twice the machine IMHO.
I know a fellow that loads all his ammo on a 550 for 1000 yard stuff. I warned him and it fell on deaf ears. He would cook along pretty good then a flyer. He got a gauge a d checked run out. Out of a batch he may have a some that he culls. FYI his scores went up. Dunno if it was him the press cases or what as he refuses to go to anything else.
Another fellow that started me into reloading said run out was hog wash. He didn't like it but I proved it to him.
Bottom line is buy what pleases you for the buck.
I know guys that swear by lees stuff others that swear at them lol.
Jeff

[fredj338]

I think the Dillon has a more reliable indexing system, case feeding system and priming system.

It's also the only one out of the two that can have a bullet feeder along with a powder check and allow you to seat and crimp in two stations.

^^THIS^^
The LNL case feeder is an afterthought, not unlike the feeder for the 550B. So while it can be made to work, it rarely does w/o issues. It's also a single speed & noisy as hell. the priming system on the 650 is almost flawless. I have never had a single issue in about 10K rds now. The LNL, suspect w/o tinkering. The LNL bushings can be a huge PITA. They do come loose, happened to me, then you shear the key off. you also have to remove 4 dies to change over vs one tool head. The spring retainer at the shell plate can also cause issues as well as the auto eject. Run them side by side, LNL wants to be a 650 but alas, it never will.
BTW, Dillon doesn't need to offer a bullet feeder as the Hornady, RCBS or GSI will run on it. The LNL is a decent press, but for almost the same $$, the Dillon is just that much better.

[EddieNFL]

It always makes me laugh how much blue kool aid gets thrown around in these threads just like the Glockers talk.

Is the red koolaid sugar free?

[jmorris]

I experienced more run out than I deemed acceptable with the 550.

David Tubb loads on a 550 and has a decent record. Although he doesn't use it very progressively.

I did do some minor adjusting on the advance pawls on my LNL when I first got it, but it's worked fine since. I don't see how it can get much better than set it and forget it.

You just don't have the adjustment on the Dillons, they are just there. Sure folks cut on springs or add thrust bearings but even without any "tweaks" they always work.

I also ran into a problem on one of my LNL's where the 1/2 advance was a problem loading long rifle cases. If I placed a bullet atop of the case at the down stroke, the tip was already above the mouth of the die when it finished the index, knocking the bullet off. Again no big deal, just run the bullet up into the die and set it on the case mouth when it comes around but have never had to do that on a dillon.

What, specifically, about the priming system do you think is better?

It just works and works and works. I think it is the best priming system Not only between the 650 and LNL, I think it's the best one on any Dillon. All the rest have that dam plastic tip on the end of the primer tubes and slides.

I don't think we're comparing apples anymore. The GSI bullet feeder/seater is $500 on top of the 650's initial cost, and it isn't Dillon.

Maybe not but you just can't have the same with an LNL, if you don't ever want one it's a nonissue same as the case feed. If you think you would ever want one, the Dillon is the right choice. FWTW the last GSI feeder I bought for the 650 was $250. The last 5 for the 1050's that arrived here were $350. I make my own collators though.


As for short stroking, in the old days Dillon measures just had springs like the LNL measure, with the fail safe measures it's a lot harder to short stroke and get a double, unless you are using a 550 and don't index the shell plate.

[jmorris]

The point made by jmorris is moot if a Hornady, RCBS, or Mr. Bulletfeeder is used. Both presses are 5 station and something has to go to use one of these feeders. You are not talking about two presses at the same price point once the GSI bullet feeder is added.

It's only a moot point if you are wanting to add aftermarket parts to a press it isn't available for. Sort of like 10/22's being more popular than marlin 60's.

I'm willing to admit that the Dillon 650 is a good machine, but not that it is the "only" machine as some would have us believe

It most certainly is not the "only" machine, or I wouldn't have more presses that are not 650's than I do. Heck I only have one on my bench at this time.

Will add that the last 650 I sold for more than twice what I had in it after years of use and hundreds of thousands of rounds loaded.

Also a lot of folks will start threads saying they "only" intend to load 2000 rounds a month and want to save a few hundred bucks on a press. Then back step when they realize how much money they are going to shoot through in the first year of 24,000 rounds. The last 20,000 9mm "cheap" bullets I bought cost over $1600 not to mention everything else that goes into it.

[jmorris]

Doesn't adress the other points but I agree, it's not apples to apples because it exceeds the limits of aftermarket; however IF one were to want to add one to either, it is another point of concern.

I am one of those guys that believes in having at least one of everything, if for no other reason than just to have an informed opinion.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, as usual free.

FWIW I didn't bash on the Lee loving thread either.

If you are happy with it, I am too.

[fredj338]

fredj338,

Others have admitted that the 650 is also prone to priming issues and is the weakest link in the 650 press. I've said I had to do some tinkering on the LNL. It's run well since. I'm not willing to pay someone else for a little bit of setup time that I can do myself, that also helps me understand what makes the thing work. I'm willing to accept that. As mentioned previously, the location of the priming system on the LNL suits me.

Most of the other things are preferences, not issues. I prefer the LNL bushings, you prefer the dies. Neither of us is wrong.

What key did you shear off on the LNL and can you provide details of how it happened? I'm curious what to watch out for.

I'm still on my original case retaining spring.

The EZject does hang on occasion, usually due to a flaw in the rim of the case.

The point made by jmorris is moot if a Hornady, RCBS, or Mr. Bulletfeeder is used. Both presses are 5 station and something has to go to use one of these feeders. You are not talking about two presses at the same price point once the GSI bullet feeder is added.

The only way the 650 priming system has issues is in changing over & not getting sonething right. I have not changed my 650 over, it is setup for 45acp or 45colt, everything else gets loaded on the 550B.
As to the LNL bushings. They come loose, depends on the fit with each given LNL head. Get going, the press vibrates, the bushings can back out & then you get 50% bearing & a key will shear. This was so prevelant that Hornady offered shims. That is a bandaid fix IMO. The tool head on the 650 is pretty bullet proof. There may be some play, but that is easily raken out w/ a pin punch & 30sec of file work if you get a sloppy one.
All progresives are a balancing act. SOme work well, LNL, some work like krap; Lee, some work better; Dillon. They can certainly all break, but Dillon will run out of the box, few other will. Since price is not really the issue, why waste $$ trying to get something else to do the job, buy the best tools you can afford. If ti made my press run better, I woudl paint it red. I think many like to be contrarian & go to anything other than Dillon, but it is the standard everyone else tries to copy. There is no right or worng choice, your $$, but there are better choices.

[Cosmiceyes]

Let's address this like it should be addressed.My Dillon RL 550 B has been used by me since 1987.Other than new upgrades it is unchanged.There are some new parts as a spring went somewhere,and had to be replaced.How old is you Hornady?
OK someone like springs instead of buttons.How does that really make one better than the other?
If the manufacture of your machine changed it every time the competitor had something new you would hate them all,because you couldn't afford them.
The question of which is best is really which one makes you happiest.To me it would be economics.With Hornady you have the middle man making money.With Dillon there isn't a middle man.
Which is better the RCBS Rock Chucker,or the Hornady Lock & Load? Hint my Rock Chucker just broke into when I dropped it from arms length off the floor.RCBS will not send me another one for free as I bought it in the 70's.

[hermans]

I have the Dillon 550B, if the Hornady is better, it must be really good, because the Dillon is absolutely fantastic!

[gunoil]

How bout a dillon 1050 with mrbulletfeeder.net? hehehehe.

[Ironnewt]

A buddy has a Hornady and it seems he has problems when he switches calibers, I don't know if it's him or the machine as once it's "Dialed In" it seems to work like a charm. I have 2 Dillon 550B's and I'm pleased with them. I got a deal on the second and bought it so I don't have to switch primer sizes, which I find to be the biggest problem with this machine. To each his own.

[fredj338]

Let's address this like it should be addressed.My Dillon RL 550 B has been used by me since 1987.Other than new upgrades it is unchanged.There are some new parts as a spring went somewhere,and had to be replaced.How old is you Hornady?
OK someone like springs instead of buttons.How does that really make one better than the other?
If the manufacture of your machine changed it every time the competitor had something new you would hate them all,because you couldn't afford them.
The question of which is best is really which one makes you happiest.To me it would be economics.With Hornady you have the middle man making money.With Dillon there isn't a middle man.
Which is better the RCBS Rock Chucker,or the Hornady Lock & Load? Hint my Rock Chucker just broke into when I dropped it from arms length off the floor.RCBS will not send me another one for free as I bought it in the 70's.

Are you saying you expect them to send you a new one? I am all about CS & QC in a manuf, but 40yrs & you abused it in some fashion, buy a new one, you got your money's worth IMO.

[Love Life]

Let me tell a story.

There once was a man who wanted a progressive press. After playing with a Hornady and a Dillon he decided to buy the Dillon. He and the Dillon lived happily ever after.

The end.

[1bluehorse]

I find it interesting (for me anyway) that these "comparisons" seem to always be between Dillon and Hornady...(with the Loadmaster thrown in for comic relief) (yes I said that) but the "comparators" (new word) always seem to leave out a very viable (and as good in my estimation) press in the RCBS Pro 2000...cast iron frame, auto indexing, changeable die plate, (for those who like that) a better priming system, smooth ergonomic operation, 5 stations, powder system as good as any, case feeder and bullet feeder capable (if wanted) and customer service as good as anyones....just another option thats available...make my Kool-aid Lemon Lime...

[williamwaco]

Let me tell a story.

There once was a man who wanted a progressive press. After playing with a Hornady and a Dillon he decided to buy the Hornady. He and the Hornady lived happily ever after.

The end.

[fredj338]

Agreed, this can be an issue. I fail to see how adding thicker o-rings to cure the problem on the LNL is any more of a headache than removing the slop on the Dillon tool head. Tools aren't even required for the LNL bushings. Again, pick your poison. They both have drawbacks. Nearly every design decision does. It's part of the game, how much design are people willing to pay for? I've put a lot of force on the LNL bushings in the Rock Chucker and haven't seen shearing issues. I'm not saying it can't happen, just surprised. What die was in the bushing when this happened? Rifle or pistol? Just curious of the details of the incident.



Every design project is a balancing act. Quality, time, and cost. Those are the issues of any design. Anytime the first goes up, so do the other two. Price was an issue when I bought mine. I concede it isn't as much of a gap now, if we are talking one or two calibers.

I did buy the best tool for my operation. I did not make the decision solely on the basis of money, but it was a positive for the Hornady.



While I can certainly be contrary, that isn't the point. I'm not bashing Dillon. They are good machines. Best is subjective. Best at what? The 650 certainly isn't the "best" progressive in the Dillon lineup according to Dillon themselves. They reserve that for the 1050. I'm not opening the wormhole on the 1050, just pointing out that best is subjective. I think both the LNL and the 650 are good presses and what is the "better choice" depends on the nuances you are willing to deal with.
As an aside, I'll explain why I don't run a case feeder. I have a Lyman Auto-Flo tumbler. The media drains out the bottom, but not all of it gets out of the brass, particularly rifle brass. I'm using mineral spirits and polish in the media, so it has enough moisture in it to make the particles stick to each other sometimes. I take it out of the tumbler, put it in the bucket, and start feeding it into the progressive. I'm checking each case as I go to make sure it doesn't have any media hung up in it. Grab the piece of brass, turn it upside down, tap it on the bench top, grab the bullet with the same hand, then put both in the the press. Repeat. If I ran a case feeder, I'd have to make sure I separated all the media from the brass before putting it into the case feeder. It's an extra step. It seems more efficient to me, particularly with rifle brass that has already been sized and inspected once before the final tumbling/lube removal, to just hand feed it and check it then. The time is spent either way, would the case feeder really gain me anything?

Ah, where to start. Most things in life are subjective. To deny something is better & not just diff is denying reality. I never said the 650 was the best press, only that Dillon is the industry std everyone else is trying to catch up to. The 2nd gen LNL is not a bad press, but not as good, based on objective review of the features vs cost, compared to a 650. No case feeder, the LNL is slightly more user friendly.
No extra step in media separation. The way you are using your LNL is actually slower, case feeder or not. Not separating the media first, is painfully slower. So the 1min extra step of separating the media is eaten up by you pawing thru your tumbler in & knocking media out of each case.
As to the tool heads vs bushings. The bushing shims have to be installed each time you place a die back into the press. The 30sec fix on a sloppy Dillon tool head is done once & never needs adjusting or tools again, ever. Pull the pins, remove the tool head, replace with another tool head, what 20sec. Remove 4 individual bushings & replace 4 individual bushings on the LNL, make sure they are tight, etc. No thanks, but if it works for you, great.

[jmorris]

I'd have to make sure I separated all the media from the brass before putting it into the case feeder. It's an extra step. It seems more efficient to me, particularly with rifle brass that has already been sized and inspected once before the final tumbling/lube removal, to just hand feed it and check it then. The time is spent either way, would the case feeder really gain me anything?

I also tumble twice and run them through two different presses. The first press sizes/deprime then trim, the 2nd loads them. Have a rotary style media separator and don't have a problem. The case feeders gain you speed or at least cleaner hands that don't cramp up.

FWIW the first LNL I had, pre EZ Ject, they didn't yet offer shims. I just installed an o-ring large enough that it was a tight fit. Pretty simple if you stock o-rings.

The RCBS seems like the SAAB of the Progressive reloading world.

[fredj338]

I like the RCBS but dislike the priming system. Buying the primer strips is limiting & expensive. Sure, you can load your own strips, but just another tedious thing to do. Also no case feeder. If one does not mind the priming strips, I prefer the RCBS to the LNL.

I find it interesting (for me anyway) that these "comparisons" seem to always be between Dillon and Hornady...(with the Loadmaster thrown in for comic relief) (yes I said that) but the "comparators" (new word) always seem to leave out a very viable (and as good in my estimation) press in the RCBS Pro 2000...cast iron frame, auto indexing, changeable die plate, (for those who like that) a better priming system, smooth ergonomic operation, 5 stations, powder system as good as any, case feeder and bullet feeder capable (if wanted) and customer service as good as anyones....just another option thats available...make my Kool-aid Lemon Lime...

[Love Life]

Let me tell a story.

There once was a man who wanted a progressive press. After playing with a Hornady and a Dillon he decided to buy the Hornady. He and the Hornady lived happily ever after.

The end.

I like my version better!

[Cosmiceyes]

Let me tell you a story! Dillon!
The end.
My version is shorter!

I like my version better!