Hunting With 44 Magnum Casr Bullets With Copper Gascheck

[deep creek]

My 320grn cast from w.w. ,water dropped lubed with lbt blue lube bullets on top of 21.5 grns of 296 are very accurate and are about all i want to shot in a tense situation.That being time off target from recoil to back on target. this load i have used in confrontations with various and sundry bears you get pass throughs,bullets are big enough to cause nasty wound channels and result in a dead bear! all the talk and speculation dont meam spit ,results speak the loudest. im confident in my vload and that means every thing.

[quilbilly]

If you were to do the "wet phone book" terminal ballistic test with your boolit at an mv of 1200 and for good measure put a 1/4 piece of plywood 1" inside the front to simulate clipping a bone, I suspect you will get at least 16" of penetration at 40 yards. With that evidence in hand you can be assured your boolit will handily take down anything on this continent out to 75 yards and deer twice that far or more if your eyes are better than mine.

[Paul D. Heppner]

310 with 21.5 of H110 at 45 yards or so worked for me.

[Area Man]

I suppose the thing that bothers me most is when a guy says he gets 1400 to 1500 fps and thinks it is better. First you need a softer boolit and second you lose accuracy

Am I understanding correctly: SOFTER bullets are better for higher velocity loads? I had thought it was the other way around.

[waksupi]

Am I understanding correctly: SOFTER bullets are better for higher velocity loads? I had thought it was the other way around.

When speaking of handguns, all of them are low velocity. They have very low demands on hardness, when everything is done correctly. I can not think of any standard handgun that would need a hardness of more than 12 Bn.

[Area Man]

When speaking of handguns, all of them are low velocity. They have very low demands on hardness, when everything is done correctly. I can not think of any standard handgun that would need a hardness of more than 12 Bn.

So COWW cured for two weeks or quenched is a good alloy for most North American hunting situations including deer and Texas pigs?

[Adam10mm]

Yes. That's correct.

[Larry Gibson]

Am I understanding correctly: SOFTER bullets are better for higher velocity loads? I had thought it was the other way around.

The GC allows a softer, malleable alloy for better expansion to be used at magnum level velocities with excellent accuracy. The same alloy can not be used with a PB'd cast bullet at the same level of velocity with the same accuracy.....thus PB'd cast bullets used for such are "hard cast" to hold up under the load.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

So COWW cured for two weeks or quenched is a good alloy for most North American hunting situations including deer and Texas pigs?

With a GC'd bullet you can add 2% tin to the COWWs and then add 100% lead to that for a 50/50% mix and maintain excellent accuracy up through 1400+ fps. That alloy will give much better expansion and terminal performance on said deer and pigs.....even in Texas.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

I think 44man is referring to temperature.

I have some lil gun powder and in my pistol after a cylendar full, it is HOT, way to hot to touch. I'm using middle of the road loads too.


maybe 44man could expound on it for us

Yes HEAT. 12 rounds through a .357 and we could not touch the gun. It is so hot from the lack of deterrent it will erode steel. Even Freedom will drop your warranty if you use it. It could also suffer from pressure spikes. Heat could cause that.
Larry has a point about gas checks. If you use a softer alloy because your velocity and caliber needs it, the GC is also needed. It is because it stops base skid. Nothing else it does---or should I say it does nothing else.
But the .44 does not need anything special, just boolit weight and a hard boolit at the right velocity. Don't fool with a 320 gr at 800 fps or 1500 fps. Neither will shoot good enough to hunt with.
Now my large .500 JRH needs some expansion with the 440 gr boolit at 1350 fps. It is another hole punch. I use a PB so the best thing to do is soften the nose some without losing the hard base. If I softened the whole boolit I would need a GC.
A gas check is the best thing ever when you need it but you can get around spending the money.
Alloy choice is what determines if you need a GC.
Any time you get soft enough to skid rifling, you need the skid stop of the GC but if you get too soft or fast you will exceed what it does. There is one point where a GC will spin on the boolit and still seal, you are at the limit. The soft boolit might have skidded too much already and leaded the bore so a recovered boolit will also show a leaded GC. They were not made to scrape lead. The GC can run over leading.

[44man]

Am I understanding correctly: SOFTER bullets are better for higher velocity loads? I had thought it was the other way around.

Yes and also much slower. There is a sweet spot with the .44 where hard works so good I will not vary from it. Regulate your boolit. You will get to where you NEED a GC.
Adjust for just the right expansion by seeing what your boolit does to an actual animal, not paper.
Velocity is good as long as you have accuracy and a boolit that is just right.

[44man]

If you were to do the "wet phone book" terminal ballistic test with your boolit at an mv of 1200 and for good measure put a 1/4 piece of plywood 1" inside the front to simulate clipping a bone, I suspect you will get at least 16" of penetration at 40 yards. With that evidence in hand you can be assured your boolit will handily take down anything on this continent out to 75 yards and deer twice that far or more if your eyes are better than mine.

All testing with all kinds of stuff to shoot really proves nothing. The animal is not made from wood or paper. There is more air in lungs with liquid dispersed through them.
My 330 gr .44 will go through 34" of wet phone books but that shows nothing about energy placed in the lungs. Darn sure, you need energy placed, not before or after the deer.

[44man]

I suppose the hardest thing is about what a cast boolit can do or not do. You have weight and velocity and you have distance with velocity changes. Now add animal size and toughness. Now different calibers. Add in boolit hardness and you have a huge mess to figure out.
No easy way out, no fixed answers.
Not like the old days with a pure round ball and BP, just make the ball bigger.

[gunslinger20]

I slugged my .44 blackhawk and had lbt make me a double cavity mould with w.w. they drop at 320 grns.loaded with 21.5 grns of 296 or h110 the have ruined a few bears day.havent recovered a boolit.same with deer and a few elk. Its an accurate two handed load.

What alloy mix are you shooting, do you think 50% 50% ww-pb is too soft for two holes every time?

[Fenring]

Check and stoke 'em up.

I am running a 315gr flat nose, out of straight air cooled clip on W/W's @1500fps and a 275gr cast HP @ 1650fps with no leading. Dip lubed with LLA / turpentine mix 50/50.

Won't ever buy jacketed stuff again.

[GaryN]

I got a half a box of 44 mag. hollow points I bought in the late 70's. I guess some day I will have to find a use for them. I have been shooting cast for a while.

[Larry Gibson]

Let me say it again in reference to softer malleable cast bullets with GCs;

With a GC'd bullet you can add 2% tin to the COWWs and then add 100% lead to that for a 50/50% mix and maintain excellent accuracy up through 1400+ fps. That alloy will give much better expansion and terminal performance on said deer and pigs.....even in Texas.

That applies to a 16-1 lead - tin alloy also. With a 6" barrel 1400 fps with 250 gr cast or 1350 fps with 270 gr cast is easily done while staying within published data and the SAAMI MAP for the 44 Magnum. Longer barrels in revolvers or closed breach SSs give correspondingly higher velocity and performance on game. With a GC'd 270 gr HP cast of those alloys such as Lyman's Devestator you can cast them, load them over H110, zero the handgun or rifle with assurance of accuracy and then go hunting with confidence they will expand and give all the penetration desired. The "wheel" has already been invented, don't get wrapped around the axle "exerimenting" or "testing".....they work as advertised!

Larry Gibson

[Indybear]

My LEE 310 GC+21.5 H110+CCI 350 + carnauba red is significantly more accurate in the 15-20 hardness range in my SRH than it was with ACWW+2% tin and I have used it to kill a boar in Florida. My 240KT+ Keith's load in this same gun is more accurate with a much much softer 8-10 alloy and it is the classic hunting load. If I chased Bambi (and I don't) I think the 250KT would get the call for expansion but for those armor plated hogs its the 310s all the way.

[44man]

My LEE 310 GC+21.5 H110+CCI 350 + carnauba red is significantly more accurate in the 15-20 hardness range in my SRH than it was with ACWW+2% tin and I have used it to kill a boar in Florida. My 240KT+ Keith's load in this same gun is more accurate with a much much softer 8-10 alloy and it is the classic hunting load. If I chased Bambi (and I don't) I think the 250KT would get the call for expansion but for those armor plated hogs its the 310s all the way.

Try the CCI 300 or the Fed 150 to tighten groups.

[44man]

I agree with Larry.
The .44 is just so amazing and can be made to shoot about anything.
All you need is penetration and accuracy to hunt. I will forever go with that and ME and velocity belong in the trash.