flintlock reliability

[pietro]

Me also - less is best, as far as the pan charge is concerned.

FWIW, I have a .50 rocklock that I've been getting virtually instant ignition from, for the past 7 years, since I switched to FFFg of Holy Black for both the main charge & the prime.

The fast ignition renders much better accuracy, since the barrel has less time to "wander".

The only time I switch to a caplock is during VERY inclement weather, like actively rainy/snowy days.


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[DIRT Farmer]

I shoot clay targets with a flint trade gun. I have played with prime powder from ffg to some old Dupont 7f. Even in a Brown Bess that throws a shower of sparks that you would be proud of from an emory wheel 2f is definatly slower. In smaller locks Goex 4f works well. one or two poofs (flash in the pan) in a weeks shooting is the best I have done. Swiss Nul-B is finer and faster but on days where the pan draws moisture will not work as well as the glazed Goex 4f. The old Dupont 7f was glazed but recovering it from WW2 hand gernades might get you some unwanted attention.
It was mentioned going to cap lock in bad weather, brings to mind a 4-H shooting sports instructor training where our students were learning the instructor/student drill on teaching loading and shooting. The weather was one of those days in March where it could not decide wether to snow or drizzle, we ran out of CO2 for the dischargers clearing the cap guns but even students who had never fired flint till that day could keep the flint guns running with proper instruction.

[lmcollins]

Hot Dogs! My first post with the new software.

Everyone has hit on many things, but the one I've seen more people screwup that are new to this type of gun since we started the flintlock season in PA in the mid 70's.

These guns have a patten breech with a powder chamber in it that is smaller in diamiter than the bore. Many of the new shooters clean their rifles with a 45, 50, or 54 caliber jag, and then leave all types of oil, solvent, etc. in the powder chamber, and then wonder why they get poor ignition. (A flash-in-the pan.)

Often the powder charge is wet, crappy, or just not accesable to the lock's flash to set it off and fire the rifle. If the lock is flashing correctly, this is often the problem. Pull the barrel, remove the touchhole liner, and see if the powder chamber in the patten breech is clean and dry.

When you clean these rifles use a jag or pistol brush with a patch on it small enough to get into and clean the powder chamber. With the touchhole liner out you can see what you need to do the job.

When you clean the barrel after use stand it on it's muzzle on a piece of newspaper to make certain you don't **** yourself up for the next use of the rifle by puddling something in it. Before you load it to hunt, clean the barrel and powder chamber out with the correct equipment and shellac thinner. This is pure alcohol, and sucks up oils and water. I explained this to one ididot, and he tried to use rubbing alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is 30 or 40 % distilled water -- duh!

I wonder why his gun only flashed the next afternoon when he saw his deer?

[waksupi]

It was mentioned going to cap lock in bad weather, brings to mind a 4-H shooting sports instructor training where our students were learning the instructor/student drill on teaching loading and shooting. The weather was one of those days in March where it could not decide wether to snow or drizzle, we ran out of CO2 for the dischargers clearing the cap guns but even students who had never fired flint till that day could keep the flint guns running with proper instruction.

Absolutely. A properly managed flintlock is MUCH more dependable in wet conditions, than a caplock.

[soldierbilly1]

[QUOTE=lmcollins;1932008]Hot Dogs! My first post with the new software.


"These guns have a patten breech with a powder chamber in it that is smaller in diamiter than the bore. Many of the new shooters clean their rifles with a 45, 50, or 54 caliber jag, and then leave all types of oil, solvent, etc. in the powder chamber, and then wonder why they get poor ignition. (A flash-in-the pan.)

When you clean these rifles use a jag or pistol brush with a patch on it small enough to get into and clean the powder chamber. With the touchhole liner out you can see what you need to do the job."

Thanks for the advice as my Lyman does have this patent breech. At the range, are you taking the extra time to clean the powder chamber out between shots or using something like compressed air to blow it out (assuming this works)?
I am getting one helluva education here!
Billy boy

[DIRT Farmer]

The cone of the patent breech only needs to be cleaned when the gun is cleaned. Just make sure that if you are swabing between shots you don't have the patch sloppy wet you push fouling in to it. T-C made a brass scraper that fit the cone to clean it. I have used them but a patch jag for a 30 cal rifle is close.

[longrifle]

flip you flint upside down, chisel edge up, I have a lyman and it only likes its flints upside down. don't know why but it works. makes the flint hit about 3/4 the way up closer to the top edge of the frizen. or do what I did and buy an L&R lock and get rid of the pot metal **** lyman puts on there guns.

[fouronesix]

Interesting the L&R lock was mentioned. I was shooting two of my muskets today and a couple of fellow traditional ML shooters showed up at the range. One had a simple Po Boy he built. He used an L&R lock. It was one of the fastest ignition flinters I've seen in a while. I studied his set up pretty closely. He was using an English flint. The touch hole was positioned right on the sunset position. His main charge was FFF and he used about a half pan of FFFF- I'd guess a grain or so of primer. I noticed the flint was striking the frizzen fairly high on the face and the angle of attack was fairly shallow. Also, the touch hole was coned on the outside. The hole diameter appeared to be fairly large but not huge or eroded out. Somewhere in the above description are the makings for fast and reliable flinter ignition.

I was able to shoot it to get a real idea of the lock time. I could still "feel" the flint-frizzen interaction but the ignition was fast. We were shooting at 100 yards and I believe I put the ball right into his group.

[waksupi]

I like a vent, rather than outside coning on a barrel. It basically serves the same purpose, but the barrel may erode enough around the cone, making installing a vent difficult in the future. And you WILL need to install one sooner rather than later if you go that route.

[fouronesix]

I like a vent, rather than outside coning on a barrel. It basically serves the same purpose, but the barrel may erode enough around the cone, making installing a vent difficult in the future. And you WILL need to install one sooner rather than later if you go that route.

Actually, I don't need to worry about it at all- it's not my gun. Just a simple observation about another person's gun and a possible factor in ignition reliability and speed based on the external cone- not about difficulty or problems associated with later drilling a large hole (bit wobble or excess erosion) for tapping and insertion of a liner.

[jimb16]

If you guys want to try something fun:try firing your flintlock upside-down. If you have a fast lock and the right priming, it works!

[rush1886]

If you guys want to try something fun:try firing your flintlock upside-down. If you have a fast lock and the right priming, it works!

at a suspended grahm cracker, while you have your own self hanging by your knees hooked over a bar/branch or somesuch. we used to call it the "upside down flintlock gram cracker shoot" (you/yourself is upside down with the gun in usual firing position, thus the gun is therefore upside down) at a couple of local rendezvous.

2 points-1-IMHO-DO NOT ENLARGE THE FLASHHOLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
ok-mebbe 3 points

2-use 4fffg OR FINER, read Priming Powder, which may be harder to find nowdays, but never use anything courser than 4f

3-when the flint strikes the frizzen, it should literally set off a barrage of WHITE HOT SPARKS. If your spark shower is minimal, not a barrage, NOT WHITE HOT, only a pitiful few yellowish or orange sparks, look at the hardness of your frizzen.
a weak, cold (orange/yellow) spark shower is a sign of an improperly heat treated frizzen. all else being as it should, that is using good english flints, knapped not sawn, and a fine grain of priming powder, JUST ENOUGH TO COVER THE TROUGH OF THE PAN, NO MORE, the temper of the frizzen is critical.

Seek guidance from a local muzzleloader club. Someone within that club will be able to offer help with the heat treat/temper of the frizzen problem.

I've been down this road. I purchased my first flinter in 1985. For the first year, I averaged 3 fired shots, for every 6 times I pulled the trigger. After consulting with the local flintlock guru, and having him heat treating my frizzen, the only failure to fire I've had since, was due to the flint itself disintegrating.

From 1985 to 1991, I harvested 4 pronghorn antelope and a 26" 4point mule deer, with one shot each, from my Dixie Gun Works Tennesee Mountain Rifle 50cal Flintlock.

To review: DO NOT ENLARGE THE FLASH HOLE. Use good quality knapped, not sawn flints. Use 4f or finer powder. DO NOT OVERLOAD the pan.

My personal take on the firing is this: What needs to happen is for one teeny tiny spark to enter the tiniest flash hole you can provide, to ignite the main charge. To accomplish that, a minimal priming charge will give you the maximum # of sparks, due to being able to burn faster, and you need the maximum # of sparks provided by the flint/frizzen to ignite the priming charge. Sounds complicated, but actually pretty simple if you jut ponder it for a bit.

#1 Detail, IMHO, is proper temper/heat treat, of the frizzen.

In case anyone wants to know-didn't hunt much from 1991 to 2002, because of job and marital restraints. Since 2002, and because I'd already done the flintlock thing, I got into handgun hunting. Handgun hunting led to casting boolits, and here I am.

rush1886

[splashout101]

With a 50 cal hawken I first put 3 grains of 4f down the tube, I prime the pan with 3 grains of 4f and have never had a ignition problem. The main charge is 3f.

[longrifle]

I have a Jackie brown canoe gun in .62 with a musket frizzen, the lock time is quick enough to shoot skeet with, its also very reliable in a mild rain. my other gun is a south virginia long rifle in poor boy fashion, both are hand made, if you want a real flinter you have to get a hand made hand tuned flinter. lyman great plains are great accurate rifles, is my first flinter, after 10 years of shooting targets and whitetails, the frizzen is dead, didn't realize how awesome an L&R lock would make my rifle better now that I have one it shoots just as good as my hand made but not as cool. if lyman put a good lock like an L&R on there rifles we might not have inlines