.30 cal rifle alloys

[subsonic]

What is a good alloy for hunting with a .30 cal rifle? Boolits will be leaving the muzzle slightly over 2000fps, maybe 2400fps at most. I am looking for controlled expansion. Shots will not be beyond 150yds.

I'm seeing a lot of pure lead to coww mixes. Should I make it a point to add tin? I don't think my WW have much tin in them.

[1874Sharps]

The last deer I shot was with a 30 caliber paper patch boolit made from WW and travelling at around 2400 fps at impact at 50 yards. It expanded to over twice the original diameter and retained around 80% of its weight, as I recall. I have not done quantitative testing, but boolit expansion versus velocity seems to be exponential. That is, expansion of the boolit increases dramatically with somewhat small increases in velocity. You are shooting at a specific velocity range of 2200 to 2400 fps and the amount of boolit expansion may be significantly different at 2200 fps and 2400 fps. In my load development tests leading up to the hunt I used soaking wet phone books (about 12 inches of them) to give me an idea of boolit performance at different velocities. It turned out to be a very good way to test and predict boolit performance on deer.

I doubt if adding a bit of tin will make your boolit harder, but it may make it easier to cast, if that is needed. Hope all this helps!

[Larry Gibson]

Add 2 % tin to the COWWs then add 50% lead and let the bullets AC for 7-10 days before use. Best accuracy will be with the 1st five to 8 shots out of a clean barrel. I clean the barrel every 8 shots with such hunting loads and maintain 1.5 - 2 moa with my .30 cal rifles for hnting. Expansion will be excellent with RP and FP bullets and even better if HP'd lightly (I use a Forster 1/8" HP tooland HP 1/8 to 3/16" deep.

For 2200 - 2400 fps you might cut the lead to 30-40%.

Larry Gibson

[FergusonTO35]

Larry, do you think adding a small hollow point to the Lee C309-150-F would make it an effective deer boolit using the alloy you described?

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, do you think adding a small hollow point to the Lee C309-150-F would make it an effective deer boolit using the alloy you described?

Certianly would, I use a similar RCBS 35-150-FN and HP it 3/16" deep with the Forster 1/8" HP tool. I use it at 2000 fps out of my M94 30-30s for coyote shooting. It gives excellent expansion and little hide damage and kills them quick. I would not hesitate to use it on deer.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

I've used plain old wheel weights and/or a mix to get a BHN of about 15 bhn. Every once in a while this SEEMS to be to hard and just punches thru. Maybe it's a difference in caliber that does it, as I use this alloy from .30 to .45 caliber. Velocity DOES have an effect as larger bores are shot some what slower than the 2000 to 2400 fps of the .30's. I do not TRY for Boone & Crocket heads, just lots of good meat!

[GabbyM]

I like half WW half plain lead heat treated by water dropping out of the mold into a water bucket. Tin added as needed but use no higher tin content than you have % antimony.

Run them through your sizer the same day before they harden up.

As far as I can tell they expand about like the alloy would if it were not heat treated. Pretty sure that after the bullet starts to deform all that heat treat molecule alignment is gone.

[1874Sharps]

Subsonic,

As you can see, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Below is a photo of the load and recovered boolit from the deer:



Notice the even and great expansion of the boolit. This boolit traversed around 25 inches of chest cavity on a quartering shot. I do not know what else could be expected from a boolit!

[FergusonTO35]

Looks like everything you could ask for in a hunting boolit. That is an '06 I assume? Do you water drop or do anything else to harden the boolits?

[subsonic]

Thank you guys! The first rifle I'm going to start working on is my old Winchester 94 .30-30. I've got a 311041GC Lyman. The .308s will follow....

[1874Sharps]

FergusonTO5,

The cartridge is actually a 7.5X55 Swiss and the rifle used was a Swiss K31. It is convenient that the Swiss 7.5 is 30 caliber (.308). I used the boolits as dropped without any heat treating.

Subsonic,

Good luck with your CB hunting adventures. I am sure it will go well for you!

[Bluehawk]

VERY NICE 1874 . I have been thinking for a while now of going to a cast Bullet for my 1911 Swiss in 7.5 . Now that I see that, I'M going to try it . Nice looking expansion .

[FergusonTO35]

What year does the 7.5X55 date to? Was it developed independently of the Mauser cartridges?

[OnHoPr]

I know this may sound a little out of the ordinary, but. A few years ago when I decided to try cast boolits in the 94 30-30, I started with the Lyman #2. I had old WW's from the 50's to 70's era. I threw in one roll of 50/50 with those WWs to a lee pot. That should have made the #2, correct. Thus began my cast boolit experience. While using the Lee 180 gr and 19 gr of Hercules 2400, plus various other loads in that similar spectrum I noticed that I did not get any expansion in/from the sand burm behind my targets. I am not sure if this condition was caused by the actual boolit nose style though. I wanted a more malleable alloy. So, I tried mixing the #2 alloy with the RCBS silhouette alloy 10/1 Pb/Sn and came up with a 8Sn/88Pb/3Sb and decimals for the other 1%. From my understanding the extra tin gives more tensile and shear strength while still having malleability. I have shot this alloy into a box of semi moist sand (just holds form from clenching in hand) and have got over double expansion while retaining most of it's weight at about 270 yd with 11" of penetration. I know it is a lot of Sn but how many boolits do you use while hunting. After you find your load a pot will last a couple to a few years. I push these boolits over 2000 fps. Also, I am thinking of hollow pointing the alloy.

[9.3X62AL]

BruceB Soft Points. No deer to date with these, but even jackrabbits show that expansion and enhanced tissue damage are taking place compared to straight 92/6/2 boolits. That is at 1600-1700 FPS impact speeds in 30-30 and 30-06 calibers using Lyman #311291.

[lbaize3]

I had been using linotype for my 30-30, but found it too brittle for my use. So I started adding a bit of copper wire to the mix. Have to hit it with a propane torch to get it to melt and join with the lead. Makes the boolit somewhat lighter but it will bend before it breaks and the penetration is excellent.

[1874Sharps]

FergusonTO35,

The original 7.5X55 Swiss came out in 1889, I believe, so it was a first generation smokeless cartridge. The cartridge was updated in 1911 and got the designation GP11, along with an updated rifle that could stand the higher pressures of this cartridge. This cartridge remained the Swiss Army standard until the mid 1950s when the Swiss went to a semi-auto rifle and new cartridge. The GP11 7.5X55 is just a little below the 308 WIN in power.

OnHoPr,

I honestly do not know all the subtle nuances between the various alloys. One thing I have observed, though, is that as a harder alloy expands at higher CB velocities the outer edge of the mushroom gets stripped off in the deer or ballistic medium. If the boolit is too soft, though, it can fragment, which is worse. Hollow pointing at high CB velocity may cause some stripping of the mushroom. Only testing will tell what the best alloy/velocity is. That is why I think it is important to do ballistic testing of a given boolit and load.

Ibaize3,

I wish I had thought of trying the idea of adding a bit of molten copper to alloy the boolit melt. Have you done any tests on this alloy?

[Finarfin]

I've never heard of applying with copper and would like to hear more as well.

[OnHoPr]

1874Sharps,

Neither do I know all the nuances of all the boolit alloys. I'm just past boolit bub. But, I think that cast boolit hunting is intriguing. That's why I cast. I still can't understand why the PRB can be so deadly and deer shot well with a 300 win mag can run 100 -150 yd. I also try to do ballistic penetration test, phone books, paper, sand, and wood. I've seen test on cadavers, but they usually shoot trough the meat, and ballistic gell. Most of the accurate meatgetters that I've seen shoot deer in the ribs behind the front shoulder, (double lung). The only thing at that point is hair, hide, soft green rib bone, air filled lungs with a small amount of blood, and the same on the other side. Nothing like the media that is usually shown. Most of the deer that I have shot have been with the 06 with a 150 gr jword at about 3000 fps. I couple of years ago I thought of this hydrostatic shock concept that has been used for game killing criteria and thought how do you have hydrostatic shock in a pneumatic system? That's like getting air in your brake lines, eehhmm. That is why I was thinking of a faster more explosive or quicker expanding boolit to get the air in the lungs moving at a higher rate of speed for more lung damage. Sort of like air pressure in psi. I'm not sure or experienced enough yet for this concept, especially with cast boolits, but I'm going to give it a try.

[Tim357]

OnHoPr, my guess as to why cast boolits seem to be more effective than a condom'd 300Winmag is boolit hunters tend to hunt, rather than try to shoot across the county with a magnum. It's all about placement. A well placed hit with a 3030 is way more effective than a less than perfect hit witha magnum. That's my experience anyways, YMMV.