7.62 x 25 w/123gr FMJ (crazy?)

[KaliforniaRebel]

I originally wanted to try a 100 gr. LRN with this case, but thought of going another route along side it.

As many of you guys already know, 7.62 x 54, 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 25 all have the same outside diameter bullets of .310.

When it comes to load data for the 7.62 x 25, information is sparse. I wanted to try and "Mexican match" the AK round into an x25 casing for a Romanian TTC. People have been known to load the .30 carbine into a shell, but even those have an OD of .308 so I know some pressure is getting by in a gun with a .310 bore. I don't want to think of trying to reduce some charge data under those only to run into overpressure.

So...why do I bother with this? I've cut about 50 .223 shells in half and sized to fit. Rather then go with lead, I have a dearth of leftover AK pills lying around. I have several powders to choose from as well. H110, HP38, AA #9, Universal Clays, H4895, H4198, BL-C2, Bullseye, 2400, Titegroup, and Varget.

I know a gun that can handle a 110 gr FMJ should have no trouble with a low velocity 123 gr. using rifle powder or something equivalent. I'm just going to put holes in paper so beyond 100 yards is a non issue. Maybe not even past 50 feet.

I know it can be done since some nut actually ran 147 gr. x54 rounds in a x25 case. If I find again, i'll post it back up here.

123 gr. should be somewhere in 9mm territory, shouldn't it?

[I'll Make Mine]

Sure, I've seen 9 mm loads for 125 grain FMJ and JHP bullets, even heavier, but the bottleneck 7.62x25 case introduces another variable (BTW, you'll have to either turn or ream your necks to reduce thickness in a cut-down 5.56/.223 case, or you could wind up with rounds that won't chamber, or worse will chamber but won't release the bullet as they should); smaller piston area and higher sectional density means the pressure will tend to run higher even if everything else works fine. You'll be effectively starting from scratch on load development. Don't forget, too, that the 7.62x39 surplus pulled bullets are probably steel core and bimetal jackets (steel plated or clad with copper), which will run afoul of Federal regs relative to loading armor piercing bullets in handguns.

In other words, the fact that it can be done doesn't necessarily make it a good idea, either from a practical/safety standpoint, or a legal one.

[gfisher]

What you have with that is pretty much the 7.63 Mini Whisper created by JD Jones of SSK.

I have a T/C contender barrel in that chambering I'm getting ready to sell off, not because its not a performer, just don't have the time/money/energy for another project.

In the 10" T/C Barrel it will push a 110gr FMJ up to 1700 fps, take a 122 FMJ up to 1410 fps with ease, a 150 FMJ would do about 1200 fps according to SSK's data but I didn't try those. They also claim 1060 fps with a 200gr FMJ-BT. Was just getting ready to start playing with some cast Boolits with this when I ran out of steam on the project.

Picture of 7.63 Mini Whisper with 122gr FMJ (Dummy round)

-George

[JHeath]

I just received in the mail a .340" straight-fluted reamer for valve guides. I intend to ream my Tok chamber neck to be a better match with my oversize bore. The idea is to prevent the neck-thickness problems common to this cartridge.

[KaliforniaRebel]

It makes sense that the biggest concern is the neck with this idea.

I'll do more reading around before I even think about this again. The low velocity 100 grain LRN .32`s sound much better if the bullet has a bit of trouble getting out of the case neck.

[HARRYMPOPE]

i shoot a PPS 43 with 115-120g cast bullets @ 1450 fps with good luck.

george

[Artful]

I don't think you'll be able to magazine feed 123 grn load 7.62x25 from Romanian TTC Pistol - in a rifle I would say go for it.

[9.3X62AL]

The 7.62 x 25 pistols have varying groove diameters. My Chi-Com Tokarev has .3115" grooves (and the typical snug case neck area of the chamber)--I reamed the case necks in Fiocchi brass and in cases I reformed from 9mm Win Mag brass, and all was well. The CZ-52 has .309" grooves, and the chamber neck is adequately cut. I have run 110 grain Speer jacketed HPs meant for the M1 Carbine in the CZ-52 with decent accuracy, load was 6.5 grains of AA-7......and there was safe margin for a bit more powder. I have run the Lee 100 grain RN with good success in all 3 of my 7.62 x 25/30 Mauser pistols (sized for each barrel), and also in my 30 Luger barrel in the Ruger P-89X. These calibers can be a lot of fun in the field or at the range, but the quirks of their dinky necks can make you crazy. The least problematic cases I've used are the Starline products.

[KaliforniaRebel]

I have an update guys. I thought id try use the lee cast #311-93-1R drops with their 7.62 tok dies. Things went a bit awry...

For the sake of velocity I've drop quenched while casting. With the brass before I load I'm able to seat full battery without any sticking. I've reamed the brass with an N gauge bit (.302) and tried to load a boolit without a charge or primer.

Needless to say it doesnt battery and sticks hard. Even with an OAL of 1.300 the boolit jams aginst the barrel lands. Trying to figure out how much material to remove from the case neck is a total guess. Being that its lead and just a dummy round, I figued I'd remove the deprime rod from the sizing die and case neck back to where it seats in the battery. If I shove the boolit in deeper to a 1.220 OAL itll seat properly in battery.

I've already ordered a crimp die and the 311-100-2R mold to give this a better try so I don't crush the boolit. If the reformed brass just wont work, ill quit and go with the starline.

[I'll Make Mine]

You probably need to ream the necks larger -- for a .311 boolit, you'd want the after-sizing inside neck size to be about .309. Beyond that, you might find the round nose on the boolits is oversize and an original size .308-.309 jacketed bullet might seat okay at the same OAL because it doesn't jam into the throat. You might look for a mold with a smaller nose -- one of the Lee 90 to 110 grain truncated cone bullets might work well for you (they make a 90 grain mold that's listed at .314, which could be sized to match whatever groove diameter you have, and at least one 100 grain that's nominal .311).

You might try making an impact slug of your chamber and throat (search around, there's a thread on them here somewhere), that'd let you determine exactly what nose profile you need and what neck diameter you can tolerate.

[KaliforniaRebel]

You probably need to ream the necks larger -- for a .311 boolit, you'd want the after-sizing inside neck size to be about .309. Beyond that, you might find the round nose on the boolits is oversize and an original size .308-.309 jacketed bullet might seat okay at the same OAL because it doesn't jam into the throat. You might look for a mold with a smaller nose -- one of the Lee 90 to 110 grain truncated cone bullets might work well for you (they make a 90 grain mold that's listed at .314, which could be sized to match whatever groove diameter you have, and at least one 100 grain that's nominal .311).

You might try making an impact slug of your chamber and throat (search around, there's a thread on them here somewhere), that'd let you determine exactly what nose profile you need and what neck diameter you can tolerate.

Any lead .32 pistol boolits I'll make will still have a base length similar to each other. I know I don't have to stick to lee, but in using them you can see how all three .32 slugs are pretty equal in length at the top left. http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casti...double-cavity/

The pills I'm dropping are already 97.5 gr WW. Even if I'm stuck with a max OAL of 1.22 I'm going to load up 10 with the 110 gr. load data from here http://stevespages.com/312p_5_110.html using 10.5 gr of AA#9. That should stay plenty safe as a starting point even with lead. The velocity will stay fairly low and it's nowhere near max for overpressure. It shouldn't come anywhere close to kicking out the primer either.

[KaliforniaRebel]

Thanks for the input guys. Im going to post up pics on another area here to check if this load is deemed ok.

[I'll Make Mine]

What I meant was that the .314 90 grain, with the conical SWC nose, may chamber (seated to the forward most groove, which I presume to be a crimping groove) where the round nose bullets hit the throat. Assuming your problem isn't a neck that's going oversize because it's still too thick (and it probably isn't, given you can chamber shorter OAL dummies), that should solve the requirement to reduce OAL.

Lee is nice if you're having to try a different mold, because you can get three or four Lee pistol molds, with handles, for the price of a single RCBS or Lyman mold without handles. Now if they only had as many shapes as they used to have...

[HARRYMPOPE]

the Lee FCD has been helpful for me to get ammo to feed well in this caliber.

[9.3X62AL]

Max cartridge OAL for the 7.62 x 25 is 1.370", so you've got some space to play with if needed.