1870 Photo

[Ben]

This photo was taken in 1870. It is a photo of buffalo skulls.
People wonder today if a cast bullet is capable of taking an animal ? ?

I guess the answer to that question would be a YES ! !

[runfiverun]

buffalo bones had quite a market for years after.
in north dakota many settlers there supplemented thier incomes by taking wagon loads of bones to market fetching something like 2.00 a wagon load.
about 230 wagon loads would pay for a section of land,if they stayed the 7 years on it and planted 460 trees that lived.
otherwise it would take some good crops,and about 400 wagon loads to make a go of it.

the first year of wheat was usually a failure.
so that would mean a lot of wagon loads of bones were hauled to market.

[fishhawk]

66 million buffalo killed off in 29-30 years done with cast boolits what don't they understand it will kill just fine.

[Typecaster]

My dad and his brother had to clear buffalo skulls and bones from the family farm near Surrey, just east of Minot. He started farming with a mule-drawn plow, then graduated to a steam tractor, then tractors using that gasoline stuff.

Guess this is going to be one of those days when I miss calling him.

Richard

[Argentino]

That´s a whole mountain made of skulls!

Which should be (at that time) the minimum cartridge for taking big game such as buffalo? I would think about a .45/70 but I understand that big fifties were created for a reason. I would like to know your opinions please.

Thanks.

[429421Cowboy]

It is still hard for me to imagine that many buffalo out here, and the resulting wholesale slaughter that took place.
I have seen with my own eyes buffalo bones being excavated at jump sites as deep as 20 feet thick, and most of those were bludgened to death with stone mallets after being run off the cliff. Cast boolits+horses were a major upgrade in killing tech.

[x101airborne]

It is unfortunate that in our infancy we were so wasteful. I would like to hunt a wild buffalo sometime. I understand that you can on ranches, but not sure about other public places.

[41 mag fan]

WOW...thats alot and by todays standards annihilation of a species.

[telebasher]

The American Bison were slaughtered to subdue the plains indian tribes, something the US Army couldn't do.

[Larry Gibson]

Other than in Hollywood movies the Army did subdue the indians, including the plains indians. The industrial revolution was another reason for the quick demise of the buffalo; the belts to drive the expanding number of machinery were made of buffalo. For 10+ years prior to the Civil War 500,000+ buffalo hides were shipped from St Lewis each year, mostly killed for the hides by the indians themselves. The need for leather , particularly from buffalo hides boomed by the needs of both the North and South during the Civil War.

It is a myth that the indian only killed what he needed and that they "used" every part of a buffalo. Ever go to a site and view the bones of the buffolo the indians ran off cliffs? Even during the Civil War and post civil war the indians killed many buffalo and traded the hides. W/O freezers, a permanant home and some system of sanitation do we think the indians really used every part of a buffalo? They may have had a use for every part but that does not mean they used it. I'm glad the buffalo didn't go the way of the passenger pigeon. If there hadn't been a ready market for the hides then nasty old buff runners wouldn't have shot them........most certainly the Army did not shoot the buffalo close to extinction.

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

Another cause of the bison deaths, was tick fever, brought north with Texas cattle herds. Blue tongue was also another real killer.
No natural immunity, so die, they did.

[M-Tecs]

Which should be (at that time) the minimum cartridge for taking big game such as buffalo? I would think about a .45/70 but I understand that big fifties were created for a reason. I would like to know your opinions please.

The commercial hunters liked the cartridges that had longer range so the didn’t have to move from their shooting locations as often. The Cavalry Offices made great sport of riding up beside them and shooting them with a 45 Colt. The 44/40 in both rifle and pistol took allot of buffalo also. A 44/40 or a 45 Colt in the ribs killed them just as dead as a 50/110 did. The 44/40 or the 45 Colt just took a little more time.

A friend of mine owns about 600 head of Buffalo. He mostly sells them live but when he does slaughter he uses a 357 level action for head shots. When he first started he used a 30/30 but he would sometimes get over penetration and have meat loss. He is not a gun guy and ammo is what’s cheapest at the Farmers Union (Cenex) or the Coast to Coast Hardware.

From personal experience on head shots for slaughter a the 30/06, 375 Winchester (38/55) and the 30/30 with 170’s over penetrate. If I get the opportunity again I will use my original Winchester 1873 in 44/40. The last ones I shot were out of a jeep bouncing across the prairie using darts filled with antibiotics. Shot that one three times a day for three days.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, I helped put down one of the last two of a friends bullalo.

Shot right behind the ear with a 45/70, 465gr boolit at 1600 - 1700fps.

No over penetration, but one dead critter, DRT.

The other of the two was put down with a .44, the rifle used by my friend before he died, One shot kills.

That last one took 4 shots, clearly a case of poor shot placement.

CDOC

[abqcaster]

buffalo burgers are tasty!

[largom]

Other than in Hollywood movies the Army did subdue the indians, including the plains indians. The industrial revolution was another reason for the quick demise of the buffalo; the belts to drive the expanding number of machinery were made of buffalo. For 10+ years prior to the Civil War 500,000+ buffalo hides were shipped from St Lewis each year, mostly killed for the hides by the indians themselves. The need for leather , particularly from buffalo hides boomed by the needs of both the North and South during the Civil War.

It is a myth that the indian only killed what he needed and that they "used" every part of a buffalo. Ever go to a site and view the bones of the buffolo the indians ran off cliffs? Even during the Civil War and post civil war the indians killed many buffalo and traded the hides. W/O freezers, a permanant home and some system of sanitation do we think the indians really used every part of a buffalo? They may have had a use for every part but that does not mean they used it. I'm glad the buffalo didn't go the way of the passenger pigeon. If there hadn't been a ready market for the hides then nasty old buff runners wouldn't have shot them........most certainly the Army did not shoot the buffalo close to extinction.

Larry Gibson

Sorry Larry but the Army did not subdue the Indians. The biggest factor was white man's disease and latter starvation. The army did'nt kill the buffalo but the government allowed white hide hunters to kill them on Indian lands. Another factor was the fact that the government broke EVERY treaty ever made with the Indians.

The Indians may not have used every part of the buffalo but they used ALL of the meat. The meat was dried, smoked, or made into jerky. My grandparents never had electricity and freezers but they kept their meat the same way. What this country did to the American Indians was far worse that killing the buffalo.

Larry Miller

[Larry Gibson]

Larry

You certainly have a much more liberal and historically incorrect view of that history, erhaps even biased given your last statement. I am looking at the issue from a non personal view point to understand what was historically correct. I certainly will admit that your view is the common one based on television and Hollywood docudrama's. Based on actual history it is not correct. Considering we are discussing the northern and southern plains indians from the 1850's to the 1890s there is no documentation they surrendered because of disease. While some may have surrendered because they were "starving" it was because the Army had destroyed their winter provisions and thus they were forced to surrender....war is like that in case you didn't know. They did not surrender in the summer when they could hunt and forage..........fact is the Government created an "entitlement" class back then (unfortunately many remain part of the "entitlement class even though they've been complete American citizens for 80+ years with the same rights, priviledges as you and I)......the indians who were the "free roamers" knew they could "come in" in the winter and "surrender" and the "agency" would give them provisions and clothing, many times new guns and ammuunition also.........yes, it was the Army with the Spencer and the M1873 that made the West safe for the Winchester to win.........

BTW; those buffalo"the Cavalry Offices made great sport of riding up beside them and shooting them with a 45 Colt" most often were completely consumed by the rest of the troops in the field.......if was called "foraging" regardless of how it was done.

Larry Gibson

[Wolfer]

I've never shot a buffalo but I did wrassell one once. My S I L lived on a ranch where they raised them. A small calf had been gored by one of the bulls. It weighed about 250 lb and had a hole in its ribcage you could stick your fist in. The owner gave it to my SIL if he wanted to try to nurse it back to health.
He talked to the vet who said buffalo could live on one lung if they could keep the infection down.
They called to ask if I would help give it a shot of antibiotic. When I got there it was after dark and the temp well below freezing. Every time it took a breath steam blew out the hole in its side. As I stepped into the corral I remarked ( how are we gonna catch this thing? )
Not a problem though, as soon as I stepped down here it came. I caught it by the horns as it pinned me to the fence and was able to hold it in its weakened condition until he gave it a shot.
It died a couple days later.

[waksupi]

I have to agree the natives wasted a lot of meat, particularly when moving. There just isn't time to process a lot, if you are pulling camp every day.
They were happy to end the use of the buffalo jumps for the most part, as they realized that practice WAS very wasteful, although it was the most efficient way to collect a lot of meat and hides in a fairly short period of time.
Looking at the old jump at the Goose Bill on the Marias River, it is plain that many were not recovered, from the location of the bones, and clumps of wool still surviving the years.
I'll stick with the idea that every part was used, just not every time. The Indian method of hide hunting was much like the white man, taking only the hide, and maybe the tongue and hump meat.
"Forty Years a Fur Trader on the Upper Missouri" describes some of this, if I recall. Been awhile since I read the book.

[largom]

Larry, I did not mean to ruffle any feathers with my post. As for me being liberal minded, NO WAY! I don't watch TV or Hollywood Doc's. [can't stand them] but have studied early history most of my life. My statement on disease was out of the time period since the diseases arrived well before the white man by virtue of Indian traders.

You are absolutely correct in the army did destroy their winter provisions as well as their lodges and other supplies. The entitlement's you mentioned were payment for the Indian lands taken by the government and their is evidence of the supplies provided by the agency's being substandard and of short supply.

If I seem biased in my thinking it is because history books have not presented an accurate account of early American history and I see our present government doing the same thing to working class Americans, TAKING AWAY OUR FREEDOMS.

Larry Miller

[GabbyM]

You don’t want to confuse the causes for population reduction with the causes for military defeat.

As far as a lasting impact on the West. Putting the plow to the great plains and the resulting dust bowl which destroyed so much of the grass lands is a tragedy that can not be reversed.
But it seamed like a good idea at the time.