One Inch!

[offshore44]

Whoo Hooo! My 458 CZ now, officially, shoots better than I do!

I got up into the hills today for a little shooting, took the CZ big bore and a pair of 308's along. I was shooting J-words out of the 308's, so we'll ignore them.

The 458 Win Mag, on the other hand produced a three shot grouping that was less than an inch. I pulled two of the five shots a little (one off of the target backer ) and another low and to the right about four inches. I called both of them, so we'll ignore them as well.

I have been working on shrinking group size off and on for a little while now. The good advice obtained here worked as predicted. Patching to throat size did the final trick. Ended up going 0.003" over bore size to get there though. Sized the boolit to 0.453, patched with 100% cotton vellum and the final size was 0.4635" - 0.464" all the way to the break of the ogive. These dried for 24 hours and were very tight on the boolit. After dry, I put a little JPW on the patches before loading.

I seated these to just touch the throat, which gave me right at a 1/4" into the case. Very tight thumb push fit into a fired case. No case work done other than de and re-priming plus a slight flare. Put 40.0 grains of 5744 into the case and filled the distance between the powder and the boolit base with Dacron. Finished off by taking the flare out with a Lee Factory Crimp Die adjusted out to just take the flare out, and not crimp into the paper jacket.

Recoil was very moderate compared to some of my other loads. Perfect "poof" of confetti through the scope. The bore was spotless!

I only loaded ten to test out the changes, and now I wish I had loaded the rest of my brass up.

[303Guy]

Woo Hooh!
That's what I like to hear!

[offshore44]

Thanks 303guy...it's taken awhile to get to this point. This is the rifle with the 4" factory target, bye the way.

Gotta reproduce these results on another outing, and then it's adjustable mold time! Put a nose on it like windrider919's custom mold and away we go. I am going to try different powders as well. That 5744 is pretty spendy to shoot a lot of. I would love to get this to work with some surplus powder... that's in the future though.

Right now I'm just going to load up this recipe and make sure that the results can be duplicated.

Anybody have any ideas on how to make a boolit nose shape in a chunk o' steel with primitive tools? I've got the rest figured out for the adjustable mold.

Oh, I shot over 130 rounds today out of this rifle, and all of it was paper patched. Most were grouping about 2 - 2 1/2" five shot groups with my next most successful load. That sucker is HOT though. 405 grains at just under 2400 fps. That's a full case of H4895.

[Haggway]

Congrats offshore.
Your making me really want to get my 458 scoped and shooting.

[windrider919]

Whoo Hooo! My 458 CZ now, officially, shoots better than I do!

I got up into the hills today for a little shooting, took the CZ big bore and a pair of 308's along. I was shooting J-words out of the 308's, so we'll ignore them.

The 458 Win Mag, on the other hand produced a three shot grouping that was less than an inch. I pulled two of the five shots a little (one off of the target backer ) and another low and to the right about four inches. I called both of them, so we'll ignore them as well.

I have been working on shrinking group size off and on for a little while now. The good advice obtained here worked as predicted. Patching to throat size did the final trick. Ended up going 0.003" over bore size to get there though. Sized the boolit to 0.453, patched with 100% cotton vellum and the final size was 0.4635" - 0.464" all the way to the break of the ogive. These dried for 24 hours and were very tight on the boolit. After dry, I put a little JPW on the patches before loading.

I seated these to just touch the throat, which gave me right at a 1/4" into the case. Very tight thumb push fit into a fired case. No case work done other than de and re-priming plus a slight flare. Put 40.0 grains of 5744 into the case and filled the distance between the powder and the boolit base with Dacron. Finished off by taking the flare out with a Lee Factory Crimp Die adjusted out to just take the flare out, and not crimp into the paper jacket.

Recoil was very moderate compared to some of my other loads. Perfect "poof" of confetti through the scope. The bore was spotless!

I only loaded ten to test out the changes, and now I wish I had loaded the rest of my brass up.

Congratulations, glad we (Smokeless PP) could help! I see that you have almost duplicated my loading procedure for .458, good to know it has been 'independently verified' by another shooter.

I also had some good results with H4198, H322 and Reloader7 in different 458's....one would work extremely well in a rifle but not in another one but I find one of the three powders will always work.

[CJR]

Offshore,

Congrats! As the Romans said, "He who perseveres is victorious!"

Best regards,

CJR

[offshore44]

Congrats offshore.
Your making me really want to get my 458 scoped and shooting.

All I can say is "Go for it", Haggaway. This rifle has become my favorite out of the bunch. Never thought that would happen. If I would have known that this cartridge was as versatile as it is, I would have gotten one of these way before now and instead of a couple of other rifles.

[offshore44]

Congratulations, glad we (Smokeless PP) could help! I see that you have almost duplicated my loading procedure for .458, good to know it has been 'independently verified' by another shooter.

I also had some good results with H4198, H322 and Reloader7 in different 458's....one would work extremely well in a rifle but not in another one but I find one of the three powders will always work.

Yup, you folks have made this possible and the results are yours more than mine, really. Thanks a bunch! ...and kudos! I printed out the thread that you contributed to that had a whole bunch of 458 information in it, and put it in my reloading folder under 458. Some of the differences in technique are attributable to the differences in equipment rather than anything else. For instance, I had to beagle out my mold by about 0.003" to get the bore riding section up to the size needed. I also had to "ream" out a sizing die to size to the correct dimensions. Same with my reloading die, the sleeve had to be opened up to accommodate the increase in boolit size. I don't use it now, but it was a step in the learning process. Lots of one way changes that I had to wrap my head around before actually doing. But everything worked out as advertised, so it's all good. I'll try those powders out, windrider919, and we shall see what we will see. I know that the 5744 is a pain to work with and more expensive to boot.

It's off to Mother's day activities! Thanks again folks...

[pdawg_shooter]

I enjoy taking my funny paper wrapped rounds to a public range and watching the look on other shooters faces when I shoot as good as they do with jacketed bullets. Always gets lots of questions and interest.

[offshore44]

I enjoy taking my funny paper wrapped rounds to a public range and watching the look on other shooters faces when I shoot as good as they do with jacketed bullets. Always gets lots of questions and interest.

Know what you mean, kinda. I don't shoot at public ranges. It's a long drive and a lot of money to shoot there for me. I do usually get one or two people who wander up to see what the big boom is at one of the places that I usually shoot at. Lot's of interest and some even take a crack at shooting the rifle. Most enjoy the experience.

I'm afraid that I may have caused a bit of a problem for one of my co-workers. Apparently her husband couldn't stop talking about the "crazy guy with the paper on his bullets". I offered to walk him through the process if he is that interested. Who knows, he may be a new convert. He's not really a shooter yet, just getting started, and only owns a .22 pistol and a shotgun. Lot's of enthusiasm right now though.

I went through about half of the brass that I shot over the weekend last night and it all looks really good. Time to get busy on the next round of testing!

[XTR]

I'm glad you've found what works for you. It is good that you knew you pulled the flyers, but for me personally, flyers count. It is a hole that isn't where you wanted it. I've seen countless internet pictures of little 3 shot groups, "don't count the flyer(s)".

[offshore44]

I'm glad you've found what works for you. It is good that you knew you pulled the flyers, but for me personally, flyers count. It is a hole that isn't where you wanted it. I've seen countless internet pictures of little 3 shot groups, "don't count the flyer(s)".

I'll give you that one XTR, I'll give you that one... In that case - I'm really pleased with this particular 4" group. Now I'm off to reproduce that same group size for all five shots. It's not really valid until it is reproducible on demand, right? I've been stuck at 2 - 2 1/2" groups for six months now. When I cut that in half again, it's was pretty pleasing as you may imagine. I started out with a pretty decent shotgun pattern a year ago.

[XTR]

Offshore, please don't think I was picking on you because I'm not. If you were looking to develop a load that shoots tight you know you have one, I wish I had that right now.

By the way, do you sail? (just guessing from your handle)

[offshore44]

Offshore, please don't think I was picking on you because I'm not. If you were looking to develop a load that shoots tight you know you have one, I wish I had that right now.

By the way, do you sail? (just guessing from your handle)

No issues... It really isn't a group unless you can reproduce it on demand. Well, at least more often than not. ...and no braggin' rights unless it's witnessed by at least two credible witnesses! (now I'm just being silly) Shooting tales and fishing tales seem to expand to fit the available space, just like junk in the shed. Especially on the internet. And most especially on forums!

Yup, I spent the first thirty five years of my life sailing. Started on the one designs and worked my way up to the offshore boats. Did a little design work, a little construction in wood and steel. The wife and I were going cruising, but fate intervened and that didn't happen. Never did get around to changing my online handle.

[XTR]

Yup, I spent the first thirty five years of my life sailing. Started on the one designs and worked my way up to the offshore boats. Did a little design work, a little construction in wood and steel. The wife and I were going cruising, but fate intervened and that didn't happen. Never did get around to changing my online handle.

Yea, I grew up on the coast of GA, power boat country there. Got into sailing later in life, and I'd toss all of my other hobbies if I could get back to the coast, life has dealt me a different hand and I'm in TN and the ocean is just pictures. (still get to BVI for the occasional bareboat vacation)

[Goatwhiskers]

Offshore, "credible witnesses" are your buddies Billy Bob and Ernest who, no matter what story you're telling, will say "yup, ah wus thar and ah seen it my ownself". Goat

[offshore44]

Offshore, "credible witnesses" are your buddies Billy Bob and Ernest who, no matter what story you're telling, will say "yup, ah wus thar and ah seen it my ownself". Goat

Now that's a true statement, right there.

Every time I get to feeling a little spunky, I get out the Winchester M52C and do a little shooting at 100 yards.

[offshore44]

The family went out shooting yesterday and the 458 went along as usual. Very interesting results.

I ended up with a nice coating of paper flakes on the ground in front of the bench, and a group on target that was about 1 1/2" wide by about 8" tall. Bullet setback from shooting from the magazine was killing accuracy. Single feeding cured the problem, but it would be nice to be able to shoot from the magazine.

Shooting from the standing position and slung up was just as accurate as off the bench.

Once again, cleaning was really easy. Wipe down the outside with a slightly oily rag, run an oily patch through the bore and put in the safe. Man, I love this paper patching stuff!

[John Boy]

Offshore - what distance(s) were you shooting for the post groups? With or without a scope?

[offshore44]

Offshore - what distance(s) were you shooting for the post groups? With or without a scope?

It lazered out at 98 yards from the bench to the target. The terrain was slightly up hill, on the order of about 6' more elevation on the target than the bench. When I was shooting in the standing position, the target just about level with the muzzle on the rifle and I'm 6' tall.

I have a Leupold VX-7 scope in Warn steel QD rings. It's a 1.5- 6 power, German #3 reticule.

I put seven, five round groups into the same target to get the 1 1/2" x 8" group. I tried out two different powders and two different alloys. The alloy difference didn't seem to change anything on target. The powder change did make a difference. H4895 pushes the boolits out just a touch faster, hence higher impact point on the target.