Best Old Military Rifles

[bob208]

the first milsurplus rifle i use cast in wast a 91 argentine mauser. formed the brass out of .30-06. used a 200 gr bullet with gas check. sized to .312.

[ksriverrat]

Truthfully, I've encountered used, older Remington 700 ADLs in 30-06 for low enough price to forget about milsurps. They already are D&T for scope, low bolt handle, adjustable triggers, good barrels...

RIGHT!
Thats why this topic is by no means meant to help me find my favorite rifle or the rifle I will carry with me most of the time.

Good shooters from yesteryear are desirable to me. If they shoot well & are still capable of taking some abuse from use all the better.

[ksriverrat]

Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54
One gun not mentioned is the good ole' M-1 Carbine. It's a semi, plus they are still being made new,

Wish I had one. They do get overlooked. With newer projectiles the 30 carbine really becomes a gun & cartridge with some legit merit.
They seem to fire well even when not cleaned regular.
I believe that caliber is also legal for deer in some states.

[Multigunner]

Back to the Lee Enfields for a moment.
While most have over large bores, and even the minimum acceptance specs for these bores with major diameter of .313 is .002 over the common bullet diameter of .311, I did luck out in finding an SMLE with excellent bore that slugged at .311. I haven't fired this rifle with handloads enough to know the limits of its accuracy, but results with milsurp, commercial sporting, and reloads using .312 J-word bullets I'd worked up for my No.4 have shown very promising results.
Cases show no excessive stretching or swelling , and headspace appears to be very good as best I can judge using shims.
The cartridge itself is one of those considered inherently accurate, the case capacity, shoulder geometry, and bullet weight range are well balanced.

This is seldom the case with hard used milsurp Enfields, but the rifles FTR'ed shortly before being put in storage and later sold off may well have bores and chambers well suited to reloading without special tricks like the O-ring.
The headspace when the rifle left the factory would have been well within SAAMI commercial specs for the .303. Its only after hard use that headspace increased to any extent, unfortunately most were hard used and often with unsuitable and even defective ammunition in the many brushfire wars and genocidal campaigns of the third world pestholes that ended up with mountains of WW1 and WW2 surplus British rifles. Poor cleaning or no cleaning at all also accounted for many Enfield bores being in terrible condition.

[Char-Gar]

USGI rifles in 30-06 caliber, 1903, 1903A3, 1917 and Garand. Get any and all of them and pay what you must to acquire them, and never look back. They will never be cheaper or more available than they are today.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have and shoot 3 of these old war horses.

A SMLE No4 Mk ? Longbranch .303 Brit that has a sporterized stock. So far the accuracy is horrible and it flings rounds sideways even at 25 yds. I recently got a 316299 mold and I have yet to assemble rounds for an accuracy test. Nice rifle but the verdict is not in yet.

I had a Mauser 98/22 with Turk markings on the sights. It was an excellent CB rifle but too ugly and ungainley for me. I rebarrelled it 6.5 x 55 Sweede and with a new stock it is a barnburner with groups of 1/4" at 100 yds with J word boolits. With a charge of Unique powder and a CB it groups all day at less than an inch at 100 yds and recoils like a .223.

Then I got a commercial model Mauser in 8 x 57. It has a tight chamber and I am still trying to find the answers for this rifle. It has promise. Again the verdict is not in.

My beloved Garand was made by the Springfield people and it loves CB's. Stoked with Accurate 2700 and a 311284 GC boolit it regularly gives me great joy and a is accurate out to over 300 yds on steel targets. Low recoil and muzzle blast and the empties stack up in front of the gun. FPS of about 1850 and this gun hardly gets warm until the 3rd clip of 8 rounds. A true joy to shoot and always attracts attention at the firing line.

[Multigunner]

One thing about older rifles and cast boolits is that iff finely pitted the full length of the bore theres an unusual effect first noticed in the 1840's when it was found that a "seasoned" bore usually out shot a brand new highly finished bore.
Tests run in the early 1900's bore out results of those earlier tests. The explanation given was that at lead bullet velocities bullet lubricants got into the pits and under the pressure of the bullet's passage the trapped lubes acted like microscopic ball bearings.
The same basic effect is why a crosshatched honining of an engine cylinder holds lubrication and forms a microscopic barrier between the piston ring and cylinder walls that also seals in gases of combustion. Once the honing has been worn to a bright gases of combustion blow by the rings and friction increases till the engine has to be given a ring job or rebuild.

So if one finds that the bore of a milsurp has fine rust or shallow pitting the rifle may yet display great accuracy with a properly taylored cast boolit load.

I've seen adverts for some specialized target barrels that have a finish to the grooves meant to reproduce that same effect at J-word high velocities, while also reducing bullet friction without allowing blowby.

[garym1a2]

A good M39, its accuracy is tops. Surplus ammo is dirt cheap. Kinda hard to find brass though.

[35 Whelen]

I have 1903A3's and K-31's. I LOVE them both, and they're both very accurate, but I have to go with the K-31. Probably slightly more accurate, superb workmanship, immaculate, tight barrels, WAY faster to operate and infallible easy to use strippers.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, I submit the following dissertation:


















All targets were fired at 100 yds., some off the bench, some at High Power matches. The last target was fired at 600 yds.

I recently built and erected a steel version of the standard SR target and set it up at 200 yds. here at the house. Lyman 311672 bullet 14.0 grs. AA#7 is a beautifully accurate load and is a ball to use on the 200 yd. target. The bullets simply land wherever the sights were when the rifle went off!

35W

[HighHook]

The first one you see at a fair price just buy it. You will want more...

Once bitten by the bug on old Military rifles all the new black guns start to look funny.

[rhbrink]

The first one you see at a fair price just buy it. You will want more...

Once bitten by the bug on old Military rifles all the new black guns start to look funny.

Yep just get one with a good bore and go have fun!

[happyret65]

The one that shoots most loads accurately in a small group and doesn't hair lip your bank account.

[340six]

M1 Garand tops the pile
Mosin Nagant

Sold the rest off

I put them first as well some can be had with new birch stocks at CMP for 600 that are like new and the service grade HRA's are sweet right now there as well
http://s234.photobucket.com/albums/e...view=slideshow

[Adelphos]

Was scanning the forums and registered just for this thread.

I have a 1941 98k Mauser which shoots 2moa at 100 yds with cast 180g lee gas checked mold with 19grs 2400. Although original barrel was so bad i had to have it replaced.

Bought a M1 Garand from the Cmp north store service grade Springfield 1954 barrel. Shoots amazingly well and even better once I put a long eye relief scope on it as well as a adjustable gas plug to make it a straight pull rifle. (easy to find brass) Now im shooting 5/8th inch groups at 100yds. Also using 165gr lee gc mold 19gr 2400. Buy them while you can they are really fun to shoot.

[1Shirt]

6.5x55 Swed mauser
1917 Enfield 06
7.5x55 Swiss
7.62x54R MN Carbine
In that order! All fun, all shooters!
1Shirt!

[Coffeecup]

Much as I enjoy my Mausers, in issue configuration I tend to shoot an 03A3 much better, followed by the 1917/1914 Enfields. It all comes down to sights for me; I think that in general the Mausers/Springfields/1914 and 1917 Enfields are all roughly equal in mechanical accuracy.

[bruce drake]

1914 Enfield (303 Brit)
No 4 Mk1 Enfield (303 Brit)
Straight bolt 98 Mausers (8mm)
bent bolt 98 Mausers (mostly 8mm though I do have one in 30-06)
T38/T99 Arisakas (6.5mm/7.7mm)
M1 Garand (30-06)
M44 (7.62x54R)

Overall I prefer 303 Brit cases and the Enfield's sights and cock on closing operation. It was also the first caliber I ever reloaded for so it's always been in my heart.

I'm a lefty so I have to shift gears a bit different than right handed bolt shooters and Mauser's with straight bolt handles "shift" faster and smoother for me.

I love my Arisakas simply for the "coolness" factor of shooting them while my "shifter" prefers their straight bolt handles as well.

The Garand is my baby as well but I prefer bolts.

THe M44 is a nice carbine for brush work because I prefer to shoot my reloads over milsurp blasting ammo anyways.

And I'm sure people have noticed my fondness for .31 caliber bullets as well. I need to find a Mauser in 7.65x53 sometime in the future as well to complete the collection.

And the K31 Swiss may be on the list soon as well, based off our fellow caster's recommendations as well.

Bruce

[Bob S]

And the K31 Swiss may be on the list soon as well, based off our fellow caster's recommendations as well.

Bruce

And you can turn it into a lefty in about 20 seconds.







Resp'y,
Bob S.

[bruce drake]

Bob,

That bolt handle cost as much as the K31? I don't read German so it might take longer than 30 seconds to replace

Bruce

[Bob S]

Bruce,

When I bought my Burgin (about 8 years ago), it was about $200, so it was actually more than the carbine at the time. But if you have to shoot left handed, it's well-worth it. (I'm not leftie, but I was having problems with my right eye, so I shot leftie for about a year.)

The outfit in Montana, Swiss Products LLC, made a version of this about a year or two ago; also about$200 IIRC. I beleive they sold out in a week. I think they are going to make a second run sometime in the not-too-distant future.

Resp'y,
Bob S.