Introducing the 400 BTS Mag!

[sargenv]

Not to mention even heavier bullets made from the 38 super comp/38 TJ or 9x23 cases that you can occasionally find at ranges...

I've been wanting to make up a heavy weight 40 cal pistol bullet from one of these cases since the 610 has 1.6" of space to expand into with an extra long bullet.. I just really don't have a need for one at the moment..

[zuke]

Look's like it'll stop dead in their track's!
Great work and an inspiration!

[nicholst55]

While I applaud your imagination, innovation and work, I would think that this cartridge would really shine with bullets in the 350-400 grain range. Shooting sub-200 grain bullets out of a .40 rifle? Sort of like shooting 125 grain .357 bullets out of a .35 Whelen - good for plinking or shooting rabbits, but not for serious use. Still pretty darn cool, but not utilizing the potential of the cartridge.

Maybe I read too many articles by Elmer Keith when I was coming up. Elmer was a well-known advocate of the 'big-and-slow' philosophy...

[BT Sniper]

OH YEAH! I expect to make some heavy hitters. Allready got load data for some 350 grain bullets. Just have to make them.

I figure I got the 40-308 or 10-51 or 40BTS for these lighter bullets and will use the 400 BTS Mag for the heavy thumpers!

I just wanted to see how fast these same bullets we shoot in our 40s and 10mms would go and still be accurate.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Data I have at the moment shows about 2300FPS with a 350 grain bullet and 2500FPS with a 300 grain bullet. Just computer data for now but I was able to duplicate the 200 grain data plus about 100FPS with ease and no pressure.

[475AR]

YEP! You can make bullets like this with any of my dies, Typicaly I set them up with a standard HP nose punch but any shape HP or FN nose is possible. It is nothing more then a simple swap of the nose punch pin in the die. let me know if you want a Flat nose punch with your 500 die. I'm not fimilar with the "nolser" nose shape or HP but I love this HP look. Imigine those cheap plastic oil funels, that is what the HP punch looks like. http://www.buytikitorches.com/tiki-t...l/funnel-small

I'll make a cross cut of this HP one of these days.

I got your PMs, I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have the 500 core seat die ready to assemble for you and the XTP notch die also works perfectly and is availble.

BT

Yes I will also want the FP punch along with the "funnel" HP punch for the .500 die set. as to the "Nosler" HP;


Look familiar.........
When you have a chance let me know what the damage is for the notch punch and the flatbase punch for commercial jackets and I will get funds out to you ASAP.

[475AR]

OH YEAH! I expect to make some heavy hitters. Allready got load data for some 350 grain bullets. Just have to make them.

I figure I got the 40-308 or 10-51 or 40BTS for these lighter bullets and will use the 400 BTS Mag for the heavy thumpers!

I just wanted to see how fast these same bullets we shoot in our 40s and 10mms would go and still be accurate.

BT

These would also work very well in your new round, these are 200gr but I have done them up to 375gr and they shoot

[BT Sniper]

What cal and case are those? They look great! Copper tubing jacket? 50 cal? or are they in fact 40? Yes a 40 cal bullet like that would be AWESOME in the 400 BTS mag.

If they are 40s let me know I would be interested to shoot a few, maybe we can work somthing out.

Yep the nosler HP looks fimilar. I have experimented with many different shape HPs but I like that one a lot. Looks cool and forms up very nicly.

Thanks

BT

[475AR]

What cal and case are those? They look great! Copper tubing jacket? 50 cal? or are they in fact 40? Yes a 40 cal bullet like that would be AWESOME in the 400 BTS mag.

If they are 40s let me know I would be interested to shoot a few, maybe we can work somthing out.

Yep the nosler HP looks fimilar. I have experimented with many different shape HPs but I like that one a lot. Looks cool and forms up very nicly.

Thanks

BT

Yep, they are .40 caliber, and I also do them in .500 caliber. Pm me and let me know what you want. Those were tubing jackets but I also have some standard jackets I can use depending on weight wanted. The case is 45win mag necked down to 40 caliber.think of it as a 40 super supermag. 180 gr bullets @ 2000 fps in a 10.5" barrel.

[BT Sniper]

Cool! That is the 400 corbon isn't it? necked down 45 auto to 40 cal.

I send you a PM soon.

BT

[475AR]

Cool! That is the 400 corbon isn't it? necked down 45 auto to 40 cal.

I send you a PM soon.

BT

They are similar, but the 40 super runs at a higher psi. 135gr bullets @ 1650fps out of a 5"barrel if i remember correctly.

[toolz568]

Did you make your own dies and how is the recoil? I can see a 40-06 in the future if I can get dies and find someone to thread and ream the barrel. Aslo, I completly missed the fact you sell other nose punches. PM sent to order some.

[BT Sniper]

I simply reamed the neck of a set of 300 WM dies up to propper diminitions but I intend to send the fired brass to Hornady for them to make a set of dies for me. Attempting to do it yourself is not the best method as I'm sure I got a bit of runout in the die now.

Don't know about the recoil yet, shot it with a break and a lead rest.

BT

[PhilOhio]

Brian, I'm seeing this thread for the first time at the end of March. Congratulations. I think you are onto the highest and best use for these rather thick, hard jacketed .40 bullets swaged in pistol cases. In my opinion, they are much under-utilized in a handgun.

One suggestion: Instead of wheel weight metal, you might try pure, soft lead. With tough jackets, it will open up better and progressively, with deep penetration. It will not open up too much or too early, because that hard jacket works like a girdle, controlling the rate of expansion. You may recall my photos of these things penetrating 9" of solid wood, with just the 10mm pistol round. In the 300 grain range, with lots of powder in a big case, and at around 3000 fps, these should stop any North American big game. That puts you on the map.

While those big belted cases will give impressive results, they are an expensive and unnecessary hassle to obtain and offer little or nothing in return. Common .30-06 brass would attract a wider market, and do the same thing. That, I think, would increase the chance of such a new round becoming a keeper instead of just an interesting new wildcat of passing note.

My guess is that your widest market might be for the .308 case version. The brass is cheap and is everywhere. It will fit most actions out there. The round would not be the biggest powerhouse on the block, but it should be a great one for medium size game in brush country at moderate ranges. And that is one of our most common types of hunting. I really like this one.

It seems to me that, with the .308 brass, this round could be a step up from smokeless .45-70 and .444 Marlin loads. You get slightly better range, velocity, sectional density, ballistic coefficient, probably penetration, and flatter trajectory. Neat.

As for the .40 bullets in handguns, I've found them most useful in Glock polygon rifled barrels, where some folks feel lead bullets are somehow questionable (which has not been my experience). And they are good in the 10mm round, because you can drive them really fast. In the rest of the .40s, at velocities in the 800 to 1100 fps range, they are nice but largely unnecessary. I can do the same thing with lead bullets, and much more easily.

So again, Congratulations on having found a really great use for these bullets, and I think you have just touched the tip of the iceberg.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks Phil,

I agree it is just the tip of the iceberg. I'll certainly try all sorts of bullet combinations in weight, alloy vs. pure lead cores, different brass cases for jackets, even copper tubbing, etc. etc.

The 400 BTS mag was a "just because I can" cartridge, I had over 1,000 cases of 300 WM brass so I went for it. It is a A LOT of bang for the buck that's for sure. I wanted to show the accuracy potential of these 40 cal bullets made from 9mm brass at longer range and higher FPS. I figure if they are accurate at 3100FPS and 100 yrds they should be more then accurate at 25 yrds and 1,000 FPS from our pistols.

I think the 40-308 will be a much more practical and enjoyable cartridge to shoot. I have the barrel and action all set and ready just need to put it all together and start forming and loading brass.

I didn't really venture into these wildcat cartridges for a business/profit stand point. More of a accurate test platform to test 40 cal bullets. I imagine the fun I will have from these cartridges shooting simple 40 cal bullets from 9mm brass may just rub off onto others here though I certainly see myself shooting a lot of the 40-308. I can make a pile of bullets at 185 grains and load them up in either the 40 S&W or the 40-308 or the 400 BTS mag. One bullet with lots of potential. Should increase my fun factor as well as cost benifits of these simple cheap bullets.

YOu all can expect lots of fun and exciting range reports from these bullets. Matter of fact I'm up for suggestions as to what sort of test media challenges you all can come up with to test the potential of these bullets at higher FPS. I'm thinking bricks, wet newspapper of course, an engine block would be COOL! Large pine trees (got alot of them around here) Bowling balls? I'm up for suggestions.

BT

[PhilOhio]

The toughness and thickness of these 9mm cartridge case jackets, even fully annealed, is always going to be a limiting factor, at moderate velocities. The metallurgy is totally different than dedicated copper bullet jackets. That's why I suggested soft lead cores. And for the same reason, having as much exposed lead on the hollowpoint is ideal. That was how I finally got big expansion with the handgun bullets, fired at anything.

So I still suggest trimming about 3/16" from case mouths to get a big, soft, exposed lead hollowpoint. That will make a really destructive and impressive mushroom with the .40-308.

Test media? With that bullet and rifle velocity, almost anything will do. Wet newspapers, a box full of soft moist earth, plastic gallon wter jugs, mellons...they should all open the bullet right up.

The .40-308 looks like it should be a fairly easy reamer to make. Same with reloading dies. If this can be a fairly easy and inexpensive round to get set up for, lots of people would be interested in giving it a try. I can't over emphasize the importance of keeping setup costs down. There's no reason not to consider making a few bucks from a good idea, although I agree that, for most of us, the fun is in the experimentation. But if somebody with CNC equipment can mass produce dies for about half the cost of custom dies, and still at a decent profit, those sets will go flying out the door.

But the first thing is more testing, to see how it works, compared to what's already out there. That's how gun writers would look at it.

[Bwana]

"The toughness and thickness of these 9mm cartridge case jackets, even fully annealed, is always going to be a limiting factor, at moderate velocities. The metallurgy is totally different than dedicated copper bullet jackets. That's why I suggested soft lead cores. And for the same reason, having as much exposed lead on the hollowpoint is ideal. That was how I finally got big expansion with the handgun bullets, fired at anything."

I have been using cartridge brass for bullets for thirty years and I have not found this to be true. Of course there is a learning curve; but, I'm so far down the road I can't even remember making it . Even rifle brass (308, 30-06) makes fine jackets for the 44 Mag. Of course you'll find all this out yourself if you experiment enough.

[BT Sniper]

Yeah, I don't think I'll have any problem with expansion from any of the 40 cal cartridges. I can get nice mushrooms from the 40S&W with wheel weight alloy cores in wet newspaper. It should be a lot of fun.

9mm shot from 40 S&W @ 1000 FPS without any XTP notches


with notches



a 44 mag bullet from 40 S&W brass shot in sand by customer


I expect I'll see results like this with the big 400, this is a 425 grain .458 with wheel weight alloy core a friend shot into wet earth form a modern 45-70.




and for a bit of terminal performance on game check out what a 30 cal 180 grain bullet made from the 5.7X28 brass does to a Eastern Oregon mule deer.
graphic content!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u.../entryhole.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/exithole.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u.../hamburger.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...hamburger2.jpg


With results like this I'm pretty sure these bullets are up to any challenge we throw at them.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[buck1]

Awsome cool!!!

[BT Sniper]

Thanks Buck! Good to hear from you. I haven't forgot about the 475, I know it has been a while.

I just got the 44 cal reamer so I know what sort of fudge factor I need for future reamers.

I'll certainly keep everyone posted.

BT