new mold

[white eagle]

Longbow I do believe those were indeed my drilled h.p's
Turbo here yah go the blocks measure 2x1.477 and its .777 between the handles
Tom is very good at what he does and is willing to accommodate your mold desires
Gary those ush are heavy !
I haven't run it across the screens yet so I don't know how fast they are going
I have give the LLA a thought and may try it
as far as recoil it really don't bother me my general purpose shotgun is a 10 ga
I do believe my heaviest load for that is 2.375 oz.don't quote me though
smashed a turkey last spring with a load of hevi shot at 59 yds

[TomAM]

Turbo, all my standard mold blocks mate up 1.47" thick with .35" deep plows for handles leaving .77" between plows. White Eagle's .735" slug set a new record. My Magma style blocks mate up 1.32" thick cause that's the size Magma uses, and with .32" handle plows there's only .68" between plows.

[white eagle]

Hooray
I set a record

[white eagle]

had a chance to run it across my screens today and my average
velocity was 1128 fps.......but the extreme spread of 16.8fps got my attention as well
I am using blue dot with 1 nitro card and 2-1/2"waxed fiber spacers
in a 2-3/4"fed primed hull from B.P.

[onondaga]

Nice narrow spread on the velocity!

Gary

[white eagle]

Gary
sure helps
what would you think I should be trying to hit as far as velocity
1200fps ? or what ????
do you handload 12ga shot shells ?

[onondaga]

That is such a heavy slug, I'd be more concerned with group size than velocity. Your group size is great. I cannot advise you on velocity on this one with a 1 3/4 oz slug weight. I don't have any data on that, but be careful about pressure. It goes up real fast with heavy slugs when charges are increased.

Gary

[white eagle]

speaking of pressure signs
what would I look for in shotshell the same as rifle
flat priers and hard extraction ?
should I set up my crono and watch for the drop off\?

[onondaga]

Yes, look for the same stuff concerning pressure. I do hope you have some reference data to go by. Perhaps the mold manufacturer can supply you with more data from other customers also.

I have weighted the butt stock to reduce recoil for my grandson on his NEF slugger. The hole under the butt plate fits copper plumbing tubing. I cut a length to fit and covered one end with tinfoil bound with wire. Then I filled it with poured lead and when cooled I removed the foil and wire and put the tube in the butt stock hole. This added nearly 2 pounds to the NEF and reduced recoil substantially for him. His aim and hold is much steadier with the added weight also. This significantly reduced his group size too!!!!

Gary

[turbo1889]

Don't bother looking at the primers. The only "pressure sign" looking flattened primer I have ever seen in a shotgun was on a load where the shell had to be hammered out of the chamber from the muzzle end with a rod and mallet. No it wasn't my load but someone who tried loading air gun steel core BB shot instead of using actual steel shot (there is a difference, air gun BB's are real steel like ball bearings on the other hand steel shot is actually very soft iron and will crush instead of lock up if it bridges).

Sticky extraction will usually be the first pressure sign you get with shotgun loads especially with non-compression formed hulls that have either a paper or fiber base-wad or a separate plastic base-wad disk. Compression formed hulls will stick too but take higher pressure levels before they do.

I normally discourage people from trying to use a chrony to judge how hot their load is. Way too many people think they since they should be able to get such and such a muzzle velocity out of a load that they can just keep working it up until they get that velocity and that kind of thinking makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up regardless of whether we are talking about shotgun, rifle, or pistol loads in any gauge, caliber, or cartridge.

[white eagle]

that is why I am asking all these redundant questions
I just don't know ....

[Dr. Noah Zark]

Turbo1889:
The pictures of the mold and the slugs below it are they 410? If so where can I get a mold like it?

Wayne

[Al in Mi]

Turbo
here ya go
,
the nitty gritty is
.7337-.734 weight is 1 3/4 oz.

what lube and how are you sizing those slugs?

[turbo1889]

Turbo1889:
The pictures of the mold and the slugs below it are they 410? If so where can I get a mold like it?

Wayne

Does anyone know where I can get a 410 hollow base / nose pour mold? I have seen pictures of them but can,t find the mold as yet. I have a Magma caster, need a mold to fit.

I believe these are the pictures you are referring too:

. . . .

And the initial answer is, No. That is a 12ga. mold and the 12ga. size slugs it produces. The mold was made for me custom by Brooks Moulds and although I can't rule out him being able to make a 410-bore size version I think that would be a little small for him since he seems to specialize in 45-caliber or larger molds mainly for black powder cartridge rifles. In addition his molds are made for hand casting and would be difficult to convert to use in a Magma automatic casting machine.

That said I may be able to point you in the right direction since I have been pondering having a mold made myself mainly because I can only use soft lead in my swaging die that I use to make 410-bore size slugs currently and it would be nice to be able to make some hard lead slugs as well.

Let me start by introducing you to Eric @ Hollow Point Mold (Hot Link, Click to Open) who specializes in converting regular molds to hollow point molds or in the case of a nose pore mold a hollow base mold. A quick look at his home-page will show you that he not only does hand cast mold conversions but also has a conversion system specifically for magma machine casting molds.

So, long story short if one can just find someone to make a custom magma machine casting mold of the appropriate nose pore design then Eric can convert it to a hollow base mold to complete the project which makes it easier to find someone to make the mold since we only just need them to make the mold minus the hollow base pin(s) which is a considerable simplification considering an automatic magma casting machine needs a very special and customized set-up to produce hollow point or hollow base bullets which is quite different then how most hollow point and base molds are set-up.

In theory one could just get a simple double end wadcutter mold in 41-caliber from magma and convert it to make a 410 slug mold by adding hollow base pins but magma doesn't list such a mold in their catalog.

There is a quality custom mold maker I know of and have done business with that does cut custom designs in magma machine type blocks that may be able to do the job, namely Tom @ Accurate Molds (Hot Link, Click to Open). Now Tom doesn't make nose pore molds only base pore molds but it may be possible to work around that problem considering that fact that he can make a mold with a bevel base and a mold that produces a bullet that has a completely flat wad-cutter nose and a bevel base is also known as a wad-cutter with a flat base and a bevel on the nose if you look at it the other way around.

So starting with one of his cataloged designs AM#41-220P and making a few modifications it is possible to come up with something that could make a pretty decent 410-bore slug.

First of all, on the bottom of the boolit I put the most aggressive bevel base that Tom can cut with his tooling that I am aware of. Namely a 0.03" 45-degree angle bevel which is the maximum cutting depth of his groove cutting tooling for his CNC set-up. Then I shrunk the base band above that bevel down to 0.03" thickness to provide a nose band (with the boolit flipped around so that the base band is the nose band) that is thick enough to fill out and be slightly thicker then the middle body bands to take the forcing cone jump while still being thin enough to fairly easily squeeze down if the slug is fired through a gun with a tight choke.

Next, I reduced the length down to 0.50" since I have found that hollow base foster type slugs designed to be fired in smooth bore guns are highly stable with a length to diameter ratio such that the length is approximately 1-1/4 times their diameter where as a length that is approximately 1-1/2 times their diameter (as in the original AM#41-220P design) can be on the boarder line between being stable and being unstable due to the length of the slug being too long compared to its diameter for a simple hollow base design to fully stabilize out of a smooth bore gun.

Finally, all that is left is the thickness of the nose band of the mold cut which will become the base band of the slug when it is flipped around. I know that in order for Tom to make a completely flat nose he needs a certain amount of room to get his tooling in and the nose band needs to be a minimum thickness to accomplish a completely flat nose (which will become the base when flipped) but I don't know what that minimum thickness is. The original AM#41-220P design has a nose band that is 0.19" thick and is the only design I can find in his catalog that has a completely flat nose. I don't know if that is the minimum or not. Due to the amount of space the body bands take up with the nose dimensions and total length set constant the first complete modified design built from the AM#41-220P design as its parent design has a nose band (which becomes the base band) that is 0.22" thick and if Tom can do it with a 0.19" thick band he should have no problem with that slightly thicker band. The next step down in thickness produced by adding one more body band and groove is a 0.16" thick band and another step down produces a 0.10" thick band.

Here is a schematic diagram:
----- Top Left = Original AM#41-220P cataloged design
----- Top Right = Modified Design with 0.22" band
----- Bottom Left = Modified Design with 0.16" band
----- Bottom Right = Modified Design with 0.10" band



In blue is what I think would be about right for a hollow base pin shape and size that will work with Eric's pin system and has enough taper to allow the slugs to easily drop from the pins which is important with an automatic casting machine as Eric will insist upon and so would you if you ever have an experience with pins with not enough taper that the boolits will not easily release from on a Magma automatic casting machine hollow point or hollow base mold assembly.

For safety if cast from harder alloy and fired through a choked gun the version in the bottom right corner with the 0.10" thick nose band (that becomes the base band of the slug when flipped) is the best and what I would suggest. It is true that bands on the base of the slug do squish down easier because of the hollow base then nose bands that have the solid core of the nose underneath supporting them but that 0.22" band is awful thick and the 0.16" band is still pretty thick so the 0.10" band would be preferred but I don't know if his tooling will allow that thin of a band and still get a totally flat wad-cutter nose which then becomes the base of the slug.

Granted the resulting slug is still pretty much of a wad-cutter shape on the nose with a 0.35" meplat flat with only a slight taper around the edges produced by the aggressive bevel base on the mold cut that when flipped becomes the nose but at this point it is the best option I have come up with since the only outfit I know of that will cut nose pore designs in Magma type blocks has terrible quality control and isn't worth dealing with (and a real pity since they used to be a good company before the old man died and his kid took over).

[Dr. Noah Zark]

Thank You so much Turbo 1889. You are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate you sharing it. Ill let you know how things work out.