Hunters, where do you aim? Head or heart?

[midnight]

At least nobody here shoots them just behind the "front shoulder" as I have seen written many times. Can any anyone tell me wheere the "back shoulder " is?

Bob

[RidgerunnerAk]

Well Karen are you confused yet? I have a slightly different take on this issue than many and it is most definitely NOT what you'll read in the magazines. I'm a long time Alaskan meat hunter, period. I want to take home good clean meat, which means it has to be as free of blood as is possible. The best way to accomplish that is to put a large cast bullet through the lungs, maybe even two, then sit back and let the animal.... moose and caribou in my case.... wonder what hit them and what the dull ache is as their lungs fill with blood and they finally fall over and die. Open them up and all the blood is in the lung cavity. I NEVER shoot anything in the head, neck or heart. The goal is to keep the heart going so that they bleed out internally. You get the cleanest meat that way. I'm not a huge believer in the concept of the "humane kill". What the hell is that anyway? You're putting a bullet through an animal to kill it. How is that in any way "humane". My goal is good eating. Sorry, but that's the way it is. And I can tell you that I generally succeed in that. Meat that is too bloody tastes like liver compared to well bled meat. Once the heart stops from being shot or from a head shot, no more bleeding takes place. And forget the BS about slitting the throat of a dead animal and letting it bleed out; that doesn't happen. Once the heart stops, bleeding stops except for minor drainage of large arteries. It's unfortunate, but a slow death is preferable to an instant kill when it comes to good eating. Shock them too much, with say a fast mushrooming bullet or shoot them 6x and they freak out and release a ton of adrenalin and run like hell which permeates all the meat, making the animal taste like battery acid. I only make a meat ruining shoulder or neck shot if the animal is about to jump into a river or lake and I want it down right now. A single centered lung shot with a .45cal cast bullet on a moose will generally put it down within 100yds. I once butchered a winter kill moose in northern Alaska that had starved to death. She was still warm when we found her so I got an axe out and we took the hind legs off and took them back to camp. The steaks were full of blood and absolutely inedible. We had to make jerky out of both legs. The salty marinade took the blood out. You can't always do it of course, but if you can, one shot through the lungs and sit back and wait and you will be rewarded at the dinner table.

[303Guy]

My first few feral goat were high chest shots (liver). They just fell over then went into spasm. Chest full of blood, just like RidgerunnerAk describes. But do that to a rabbit or hare and it's lost (unless it's in an open field). The adrenalin factor is very real. It's hard to kill something that's needs multiple shots.

That hare in my avatar is food! The youngster was so proud to have shot it and then had it prepared for a family meal! It was head shot.

[waksupi]

Ridgerunner has a good point. Shoot them once where they live, and give the wound time for them to bleed out. It takes a bit of time for something the size of a moose or buffalo to bleed out internally, and finally notice that they are dead. If you just keep putting rounds into them, they are going to figure out something is a-miss, and take off.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, Ridgerunner is close!

And, inspite of what some may think, the time for the critter to expire is mostly seconds, and in fact I have had a number of critters drop where they stood from my choice of shots, a behind the shoulders, through the lungs hit.

Liken it to poking a balloon with a pin. In this case, the blood leaves the lungs with great speed and critters simply do not continue to function with no blood.

Even in those cases where the critter runs some distance, They were out of gas - dead - when the bullet hit and simply needed to coast to a stop and fall over.

I have over my hunting years, taken only one head shot on a eat'in critter, and although the critter was instantly on the ground and for all intents, dead right there, there was still body movement. At least as much body movement as many double lung shot critters I have seen.

So yes, for me I'll stay with the behind the shoulder double lung shot whenever possible.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[303Guy]

If you just keep putting rounds into them, they are going to figure out something is a-miss, and take off.

Found that out first hand! Actually only hit the critter (a big red deer) with the first shot which also loosened the scope. Just as well because the first shot did plenty damage as it was.

There is another aspect to the shoulder or behind the shoulder shot and that is boolit rise and fall from the line of sight. The brain doesn't give that much allowance for a boolit hitting above or below the line of sight while on the bigger target area, I just make sure I'm aiming at the middle of an oval hit zone. Crucial if you are not sure of the range and the deviation of the boolit's path from the sight path.

[firefly1957]

I also like high on the shoulder any lost meat is better than a lost animal or a half hour or more of tracking. This shot has failed me once when the range was closer than I thought and the shot took nothing but hair off the deer's back but that was my fault.

[Ron.D]

The only animals I head shoot are rabbits and squirrels with a .22. Large animals are always heart and lung shots. Frequently shots are made at running animals and even if they are standing, the body may be still but the heads moving as it feeds or keeps an eye on it's surroundings. Shooting a beautiful animal in the jaw isn't my idea of doing things right. The heart and lungs provide a much larger and more still target and yes they're right about the animal bleeding more completely. Ron.D

[RidgerunnerAk]

Thanks guys. I was fully expecting to get BBQ'd for my non-PC post and am surprised and impressed. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who appreciates fine eating from game animals.

303: that rabbit looks the size of some of the deer that I shoot! I shot a bunch of rabbits on a ranch on the south island one year, using the ranchers Baikal O/U. Pretty fun shooting. Lots of rabbits. He froze them and used them to feed his sheep dogs. Now if I could just get back down to Queenstown for some brown trout fly fishing......

[stubshaft]

At least nobody here shoots them just behind the "front shoulder" as I have seen written many times. Can any anyone tell me wheere the "back shoulder " is?

Bob

It is the 4' - 6' area right behind the scalpula (shoulder blade) and the first leg joint. I always try to hit this area.








With my arrow when bowhunting.

[Ben]

If you put your bullet into the " red circle " below, someone in your group needs a sharp knife and needs to know how to use it.

Ben

[Hamish]

Has it ever ocurred to anyone else that hittting a tree rat in the skull with a .22 is roughly the same as taking a three inch cannon ball between the eyes?

Sure, certain, instant death is an apricot one end, and a basketball in the middle. I'm just saying,,,,

Ben, a picture is worth the whole argument.

[RevGeo]

I always try for the shoulder shot if the animal is anywhere close to broadside. On quartering or raking shots I try to break the off-side shoulder. Unfortunately there are times where a less than optimal shot presents itself and then it's a decision about taking the shot or not.
I hunt for meat (although if two antlered animals present themselves simul.. simul..at the same time I'll take the bigger antlers) so I like to shoot through the ribs or neck. Once a spike bull elk stuck his head out of the trees about 50 yards away and I shot him where the neck meets the skull. Almost instantaneous death.
I only shoot big game animals in the head if it is the only shot available or as a final kill shot. For small game I take headshots if at all possible.

[lino]

Big game, body kill zone every time. Have seen deer with shot off lower jaws, shot off antlers, holes through ears and neck wounds. Was friends with Elmer Keith, Bob Hagel and numerous old time packers and guides. They gave the same advice.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I shoot for heart & lungs.

[DrB]

Prefer head shots on squirrel. Deer I've done both ways.... Heart/lung or head. The right answer is "it depends."

I dont care for the point of view that head shots are irresponsible. They can be irresponsible just like any other location. Know the gun/load, judge your hold, know your game. You won't waste much meat if any on a rib lung shot on whitetail, none on a head.

Here in the southeast a typical shot on whitetail is around forty yards, and likely from a stand. If the gun is accurate and you are proficient at head shooting squirrels, it's likely you can ethically take a head shot, if there is a reason you want to.

Also, in my experience the heart doesn't always stop beating immediately with a head shot. That too "depends." I've only had a reason to take a headshot on whitetail three times. They dropped in place, but the heart was still pumping with two of them, which I bled. The third was dead but had bled copiously. The meat was as fine flavored as any steak, imho.

[Chief RID]

I decide at the time of the shot. Too many variables to decide early. I try not to wound game and dispatch it as quickly as possible. I have shot several deer in the head. It makes for no tracking and getting back to camp in the evening for supper a lot more fun. I had one small deer that did not taste very good but I can't remember if it was a head shot or not. It probably was and this could have been because of the deer not bleeding out while alive. I don't know. It is food for thought.

[Corbi]

It all depends on the situation. Typically for me no head shots.

Most of my hunting is done from a tree stand. Most deer don't even know I exist when they come in. Those that get within abut 15 yards die from a high neck shot from a steep angle. I try and get them close to the head so I loose as little meat as possible.

Out side of 15 yards or if they are moving I go for a heart/lung shot. I usually don't shoot if the deer is running...hogs are another story, I shoot as I see them.

Corbi

[koehlerrk]

I've done heads, I've done hearts, I've done neck/spine shots.

It all depends on a) what firearm I'm shooting with, b) range, c) what parts of the body I have a clear shot at.

I can consistently place bullets in less than moa groups out to 300 yards. So IMHO, part of the equation is how good a shot are you?

Now, I know a guy who takes headshots on deer out to 200 yards with a single shot 22 Hornet. He's almost 70 now, and when he goes out, he takes two shells with him. Only once in memory do I remember him coming back with one deer and no shells. Now, I'm not that good, so I don't do that, but the old man sure as heck is, so more power to him.

[AKtinman]

I’m in agreement with RidgerunnerAK.

I lived in a small town in SE Alaska for 20 years, hunted the beautiful Blacktail deer. Sure were good eating.

A lot of deer in that area are shot on the beach from boats, perfectly legal. Most of the locals were adamant that head shots were the only way to shoot a deer. One of the guys I worked with told me that he would never hunt with anyone who didn’t do head shots. He and I never hunted together.

The interesting thing was, I would see these guys at the rifle range sighting in. Many would put up a 9” paper plate at 100 yards and if they could keep all their shots on the plate from a bench, they were good to go for head shots from the boat. That may explain why I saw so many deer dead on the beach, providing food for the eagles and ravens.

Most of my deer hunting was with a .338/06 and I preferred lung shots. No worry about penetration and exit was a golf ball-sized hole on the off side. They never went very far and very little meat damage. I never lost a deer using that method.