Gonna try 3 different fillers

[Ready on the Right]

Anyone think grits may be slightly abrasive to the bore? I've used grits in revolver loads under a glued-in cardboard wad for shooting wood boring bees on the wing around the barn eaves, but have had some reservation about the abrasive effect. They are "loads of fun" and very effective up to 10 feet or so.

[9.3X62AL]

After ringing a chamber in a nice rifle using dacron, you won't see me using ANY fillers other than powder under my boolits. All cases were well-filled with lofted-up dacron. Caveat emptor, y'all.

[felix]

Al, only fillers with attitude count, eh? ... felix

[303Guy]

After ringing a chamber in a nice rifle using dacron,

OK, now I've got alarm bells going off! I've wondered whether it's the powder column hitting the base of the boolit that might be causing the ringing. I've had light loads of shotgun powder with filler jamming cases in the chamber by swelling the neck into rust pits. The primer showed very low pressure! Full power loads don't jam the cases.

[dragonrider]

I have always been leery of using fillers in bottle neck cases, hence I have only ever used them in my 45/70.

[FirstBrit]

So, I went to find some Semolina but no luck at my local supermarket but I did find something thing else I'm going to try - wheat germ! It's oily and seams to flow when squeezed so might just flow through the case neck better. Haven't tried it yet.

Try this link for semolina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semolina

My standard CB loads for my 308W /303brit/ 8x57 IS are between 27-30 gr. VV N-140 with a synthetic buffer material from Dupont. This product I buy from local company is a fine white powder based on polyethylene with no co-polymers and its main use is for plastic coatings of metallic surafces for weather/corrosion protection like outdoor display stands. Enough filler is used so that in bullet seating process the light fluffy buffer is compressed by about 1/8". I find this gives better consistency in pressure and velocity. Bullets are of normal weight for the caliber ( 308W/303 Brit 168-174 gr. and 190 gr. for 8 x 57IS) Bullets are cast from pure linotype, no quenching, no gas checks and lubed with mod. Felix Lube. Pressures as measured in pressure barrels at a ballistic lab come in about 25-30 k. psi with std. dev. of about 900 psi. Velocity from 26" barrel are in range of 1850-1950 fps with std. dev. usually about 30 fps. With my bullets and loads higher velocities usually tresult in worse accuracy. I prefer the single base powders like N-140 and shy off ball powders because of the nasty reports/warnings with reduced loads many years back.

Best regards,

Adrian - Germany.

P.S. regarding chamber ringing all the reports I have seen or read involved fillers/materials which were used for powder positioniong and didn't completely fill all the empty space between powder and bullet base. I am fairly confident that natural fibres like cotton wool or kapok used in this manner are okay, but I would be wary of synthetic materials. I myself used cotton wool in earlier years and did in fact ring the chamber of my Steyr SSG 69 - an expensive mistake - when I inadvertently used a synthetic cotton wool material ( polyester?).

[FirstBrit]

Would it be better to dry Cream of Wheat or Grits before loading? Or is the natural water content of these so low it wouldn't effect the loads if they sat for awhile before firing? Since I grow my own corn and grind my own grits I have potentially a huge supply of Grits to use as a filler?

I bought some local German product ( Hartweizen Gries) which comes fairly close to cream of wheat. I took some straight out of a fresh packet, weighed it and placed it in the warm oven at 200°F for an hour. Straight out of the packet it contained 12-14% moisture! After reading some comments in the CBA journal I made up some loads in 308 W. with slightly compressed loads and left them to age for 6 mths. After removing the bullets I had to poke out the COW with a small screwdriver that stuff had become so hard in just 6 mths. I wouldn't be personally worried about this compacting in tapered/cylindricall cases like 45-70, but have some concerns with bottle neck cases like 308W. or 303 Brit.
I haven't tested but I'm fairly sure that the moisture could affect powder burnor primers ignition over time especially if storage temperatures regularly fluctuate below the dew point.

Best regards,
Adrian - Germany.

[swheeler]

After ringing a chamber in a nice rifle using dacron, you won't see me using ANY fillers other than powder under my boolits. All cases were well-filled with lofted-up dacron. Caveat emptor, y'all.

Al; do you care to share what gun, cartridge and load?

[jonk]

jonk:

What sort of charges were you using?

From your post I understand you were using same charge with different fillers. Any signs of pressure using the "sold" fillers versus "fluff"?

Longbow

Depends on the cartridge, but in .30 cal for instance, running around 30 gr of 4895. No signs of pressure with any of them.

[303Guy]

Thanks, FirstBrit. So why does it compact over time? Perhaps it's safer to use Grits. I'd be interested in that synthetic buffer.

[bcp477]

I've been using cotton or dacron wool filler in my paper-patch 8 x 57 loads for 6 or 7 years now. No problems whatsoever, including chamber ringing. I can't quite understand why others have had such a problem. More information from those who claim chamber ringing with fibre fillers would be helpful in determining the exact cause for this.

I've heard this claim, off and on for years....but no one has ever offered any real proof.

Failing enough information to prove the likelihood of this happening with my loads, I'll continue as before.

[PAT303]

Chamber ringing happens when there is an air gap between the filler and boolit,the filler becomes the boolit and the boolit becomes an obstruction.I have been using wheat germ in my 303's for years and fired thousands of loads using it and have never had a problem.I fill the case to the top with WG after loading the powder and compress seating the boolit,works everytime.Like 303guy posted AR2209(H4350) works very well in the 303 and so does AR2217(H1000). Pat

[bcp477]

I am well aware of the dynamics of fillers.....and of chamber ringing. I am not talking generalities here.....I am talking about conclusive proof (or at least, strong evidence) as to why fibre fillers might tend to cause chamber ringing. Until I see it, I'll put the phenomenon down to mistakes made by the loader/ shooter. With that, this issue is akin to any other screw-up on the part of the one doing the hand loading - not the fault of the filler - but the fault of the one doing the loading.

So, blaming the filler is, essentially, an excuse.

Now, if someone can come up with conclusive evidence.....that's a different story.

[Larry Gibson]

After ringing a chamber in a nice rifle using dacron, you won't see me using ANY fillers other than powder under my boolits. All cases were well-filled with lofted-up dacron. Caveat emptor, y'all.

Mind giving us the full details on the load?

Cartridge;
Powder;
Powder charge;
Primer;
Cast bullet mould;
Bullet weight (fully dressed);
Alloy;
GC used;
Single loaded or from loaded magazine;
Location of "ring";
Define "well filled" as in compressed?;


Thanks for the info

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

If the 'filler" leaves and air gap between the bullet and the powder it is not a "filler" but a wad. A "filler" is just that; it fills the air space between the powder and the bullet completely. I have preached this religously. PLEASE, LET US NOT CALL WADS "FILLERS".

Yes I'm shouting, just rying to get a point across. I and many others have been using dacron fillers for many years in many cartridges of countless numbers with no problems what so ever. Mostly just better improved internal ballistics and improved accuracy. Using a dacron filler in reloading cast bullets is no different than using any powder in reloading. Use either correctly and they are entirely safe. Use either incorrectly and damage to the firearm can result.

Larry Gibson

[swheeler]

The only ringing I get when using a dacron FILLER, is in my ears,

[Hamish]

If *only* to experience it, everyone should try drier lint just once. The first shot jacks with your mind, after that, it's the "Blue Poofie", the filler equivalent of The Red Mist in prairie dog hunting.

It's hard not to giggle when theres a multi colored fluff cloud wafting away, like a psychedelic black powder Jimi Hendrix experience.

BTW, I kinda do the E.F. Hutton thing when L.G. posts, when you start getting too comfortable with something dangerous,,,,,, (I give my post one and a half thumbs up, cause I know of what I speak, cause I only have one and a half thumbs.)

[303Guy]

Anyone think grits may be slightly abrasive to the bore?

I shouldn't think so. There's nothing in it hard enough to abrade steel, like sand or something.

Chamber ringing happens when there is an air gap between the filler and boolit,the filler becomes the boolit and the boolit becomes an obstruction.

A few words explains it so clearly! But it means that the powder front can become the projectile with poly-filler under the right conditions (like powder type). That makes it important to know the powder type and conditions that caused the ringing. As Larry says - used correctly.

[303Guy]

I've now tried wheat germ as a filler and so far I like it better than wheat bran. It's a lot more compact-able but springs back more readily too. It leaves the bore squeaky clean. Looks promising so far. Time will tell.