Who has wierdest mil surp rifle

[Four Fingers of Death]

Actually Ed, it worked out pretty well as a thumbnail, comes up a bit bigger. I came across a totally original, completely useable Snider rifle a few years ago. It was in a shop for $AU600, which I thought was pretty reasonable as it still had a bright bore and was in great condition. I had spent way too much money on guns the few weeks preeceeding that and managed to restrain myself. I rang my mate who was just about to finish work some 70 miles away. He got me to put a deposit on it and them jumped in his car drove down and bought it straight away. He has a really nice collection of rifles and restores them beautifully (which makes most collectors cringe). He rust blues rifles beautifully and carefully restores the wood by steaming out dents, etc then finishing in a naural oil finish. He does amazing work and his rifles look incredible. The Snider now looks like a new gun, but looks 'right' and he shoots soft cast boolits through it over ffg.

[Ed in North Texas]

You're right. I didn't know I was making a thumbnail. Yes, there is a difference in restoration and refinishing. This one I plan on doing nothing but careful disassembly and cleaning/lubing. The bore is bright and shining. I have a Mark III Enfield artillery carbine which may get much more. It is covered with small pits and the rear sight leaf (which is also broken) and slider were made at home by someone. I've bought a new rear sight (for a Parker Hale Enfield 2 band reproduction - very close to the original), but have just started on this carbine so I haven't removed the old sight and soldered on the new one yet). The bore is good, shining for all but the last inch or so at the muzzle and sharp rifling. It is a shooter for sure.

[gew98]

A buddy of mine has two minty jap 6,5 pedersen rifles...but he won't let me shoot'em !. He also has a weird 7,5 Kurz caliber Swiss semiauto mannlicher stocked experimental cav alry carbine... really weird booger !. He also has a Mandragon with matching box and drum magazines...he won't shoot any of them dang it !.
Another collector friend has a couple 6,5 Italian semiauto variants...really weird things they are...but he's afraid to shoot them as he's sure something on them will break. He's got a gorgeous jap garand that has a broken extractor...he did it many years ago and since then won't shoot any of his oddball semiautos.
Have three buddies with TuF Gewehr's .... one shoots his with new made brass and ammo ( 13mm ) ... super expensive bullets and brass...but boy what a bang for the bucks !. I definately want a TuF Gewehr one of these days !.
Anything to me with a weird or rare service caliber makes for an interesting shoot if one can obtain or fabricate ammo for same.

[EDG]

Not mine but one of the more interesting and unusual old US Lee Vertical breech rifles.
Let me know if you would like some detailed photos posted.


http://www.19thcenturyweapons.com/1010/long/vblee.html

[koehlerrk]

The only milsurps I own that might be a little odd are my Swiss K31 (stay with me) that has a walnut stock.

My other oddball is my Egyptian Hakim. It's one of about 70,000 made from what I've read, so while it's not rare, it's not real common either.

Both of these old rifles are a blast to shoot, and quite accurate too.

[Haggway]

I have several military weapons. For a different rifle? I have an FN49 in 7X57

[Tallyman]

Unfired condition. Converted at Ishapore (India) military arsenal from .303 British Rifle to a single shot 410 Shotgun, 3 Inch shells. Bright shiny bore.

[Brithunter]

Hey Buckshot. I have one of those Chomplains in 7x57. I assume it was made for a SA country but no idea who. Does my Remington Rollingblock carbine in 50 Navy Carbine caliber fit in with this discussion?

The Boers of South Africa had some 7mm Chomplains.

[Brithunter]

I sold off all my purely military rifles but have two that served with the military although looking like sporting rifles the first is a DWM Plezier Mauser M93 from about 1897:-









7mm Mauser of course.

The next is a Muscat 303 Bore martini made in Belguim for the Sultan of Oman to equip is native forces:-









Niether are common.

[Multigunner]

A friend was asked to look through a large collection of firearms belonging to a wealthy used car dealer.
The car dealer wasn't a gun collector as such, but around here a guy that needed a car and was short on cash could offer to trade one of their rifles to car dealers to make up the difference. I ran across my long gone Krag Carbine that way, a car dealer offered it to me dirt cheap not knowing what it was.

Anyway among the rifles in the car dealers storeroom my friend found a Luftwaffe Drilling , one of those that some German bomber crews carried as a survival weapon.
I never got a chamce to look at it myself, and don't remember much about.
I looked these up once and some at least were made with actions cast from the same alloy used for ME109 landing gear.

[JKH]

I just bought an odd one from milsurpmike, perhaps some of you gents might have some helpful information about it, here goes.

Spanish model 1893 (dated 1896 on receiver ring) made by Mauser @ Oberndorf, square bolt face & bent bolt, stock cut back to sporter lentgh & nose cap reinstalled, hood soldered over front sight base & has straight sided sight with white/silver bead, receiver ring has groove & large "buckhorn" style reat sight added to clip slot ridge. Barrel is full length.

So what's odd you wonder? This old Mauser is a .410 shotgun
It is a very old conversion, close to turn of century for sure. Receiver/barrel/bottom metal have matching #'s, bolt does not but all parts match self. Feed rails have been modified to feed shells & it will hold 3 but only feeds without hitting chamber edge with just 1 shell & it works perfectly then. I haven't shot it et but got some slugs to try, later will make shells from .303 B brass & maybe can make it feed multiple shells from mag, bore is perfect.
Anecdotely Mike says the guy he bought it from said his dad hunted all beasts, even up to elk, etc. In Alaska using .444 Marlin ammo in it, he said he had to get real close though because the smooth bore shot like a musket!

[turbo1889]

. . . . This old Mauser is a .410 shotgun
It is a very old conversion, close to turn of century for sure. Receiver/barrel/bottom metal have matching #'s, bolt does not but all parts match self. Feed rails have been modified to feed shells & it will hold 3 but only feeds without hitting chamber edge with just 1 shell & it works perfectly then. I haven't shot it et but got some slugs to try, later will make shells from .303 B brass & maybe can make it feed multiple shells from mag, bore is perfect.
Anecdotely Mike says the guy he bought it from said his dad hunted all beasts, even up to elk, etc. In Alaska using .444 Marlin ammo in it, he said he had to get real close though because the smooth bore shot like a musket!

(Emphasis Added)

I would suggest you slug the bore of that gun and take a chamber cast. Although 444-Marlin shells will chamber in some 410-bore shotgun chambers the boolit is oversize for a true 0.410 bore and it shouldn't work or if it does it might spike pressure even above normal 444-Marlin (which is way above standard 410-bore) pressure levels with jacketed bullets or even worse monolithic non-lead solids. Unless the bore is close to 0.430" instead of 0.410" like a true 410 shotgun or he only used lead bullet loads and never used jacketed or non-lead bullets the chamber or forcing cone could be ringed.

I'm not saying the gun had been damaged since it is after all built on a bolt action mauser action which might be able to take the punishment without problems but usually firing a 444-Marlin loads in a 410 shotgun with a jacketed or non-lead bullet will lead to a damaged gun at the very least. Most can't handle 444-Marlin pressure levels (although yours should be able too considering the action it was built on) much less handle the pressure spike from driving a 0.430" diameter bullet down a 0.410" diameter barrel unless the bullet is an all lead cast boolit which squeezes down a whole lot easier then a jacketed bullet or monolithic non-lead solid. Problem is though that most 444-Marlin factory loads (the ones most probably used) aren't loaded with cast lead boolits but rather jacketed bullets and/or monolithic non-lead solids (dangerous game rounds).

Long story short I would check the bore diameter and if it is much smaller then 0.425" then I would do a chamber cast to be sure all is okay before proceeding. YMMV

If the gun checks out all okay one of the loads I would recommend you try is three round balls of full bore diameter plus 0.002 to 0.003 (for a true 0.410 bore that would be 0.412"-0.413" diameter round ball) cast from hard clip on WW alloy spiked with a little bit of tin and a little type-metal and water drop quenched over a charge of Reloader-7 powder with a stack of hard cards between the powder and the bottom ball and one hard card between each ball in the stack. You can push that load to about 1,400-fps range in a standard 3" plastic shell while still staying within 13-K pressure levels and it is basically the 410-bore equivalent of the Dixie Tri-Ball loads and packs awesome knock down and is like buck-shot on steroids and crack at the same time.

[JKH]

Hey Turbo,

I have to measure the bore still and see whats what, personally I would not bother with trying actual .444 Marlin loads whether the bore is large enough or not, it seems antithetical to use a rifle cartridge in a smooth bore, little lone do so and expect even a modicum of accuracy! I got a kick out of the story though and would not be surprised that it is true, God does protect fool's at times and I can imagine if things were slim a fell would use whatever he had at hand to feed his family.

I will most likely use .303 British cases to form my shells and just yesterday read about the triple ball load you refer to, that seems like a great load although I wouldnt mind a slug type load for plinking at cloaser range (25 yards or so). I will definitely be loading some shot loads as this should be one heck of a chipmonk/squirrel killer in my backyard trees, wont make much noise and a lot safer than a .22!

I'll try to post some pics later on, it is a rather unique piece with decent workmanship, I have seen many examples of German 98k's converted to 16/20/12 gauges but never heard of a .410, anyone else? Other than Ishapore Enfield's of course.

Jeff

[Hang Fire]

Though a little short, the .444 Marlin case makes a great little brass .410 shell for shot.

[Hamish]

Has anyone gotten close to one of these?

[9.3X62AL]

Has anyone gotten close to one of these?

Hey, LOOK--a CA-legal AK-47!

[Ed in North Texas]

Hey, LOOK--a CA-legal AK-47!

You sure? Looks like that mag is detachable.

[roverboy]

I've got an old enfield that was converted to a single shot 410 in India, I believe the police there used to use them. (probably still do)

Not so weird in itself but you should see the looks I get at the trap range when I'm hitting clay birds with a "rifle".

A friend of mine had one of those. His was chambered for a odd length (at least here in the states) .410 shell. I don't really own anything wierd. I do have a Johnson 1941. Its rare but not really wierd.

[nwellons]

Nice to see I'm not the only one that shoots a Berdan II. Photo is of my granddaughter last month (she is 5'4" and 115#) shooting one of my Berdans. I only use BP.

Interesting points about the Berdan II are:

Closed bolt position is different from most and there are no separate locking lugs, just the handle.

It is handy to see if it is loaded as you can see the cartridge rim when the bolt is closed.

[Donor8x56r]

nwellons-can we have more detailed pictures of this rifle and ammo for it?

I have heard of Berdan rifles but never had a chance of finding even pictures.Those posted of auction sites are horrible most of the time.

Last Sunday I found Werndl carbine for sale on a local gun show.Excellent condition and wierd/strange action(I'm familiar with Sniders but this rifle was way more complex).It was chambered in a small, police type cartridge(or so I'm told).Owner was making them out of x54R russian cases.Price was way out of my reach...