lead free bullets?

[sqlbullet]

Move.

Bill

Bill wins the thread IMHO.

[mdi]

Having put up with CA's stupidity for too many years, I would think the DFG has a list of acceptable bullets, and not just a blanket regulation against lead. I doubt if a Ranger would test your particular ammo and just cite you 'cause your bullet isn't on the "OK" list...

[BLTsandwedge]

I do believe 'lead free' will spread throughout the country. I also believe that the Lymans Lees et al will come up with some handloading/casting solutions such as a sabot system. In the meantime, I'm not sure what we could do with our current equipment to turn out a lead-free expanding projectile that would fit in a home-grown sabot, but I'd well imagine the engineering folks here could think something up...........

[pdawg_shooter]

Cast to BORE size using bismuth, tin, copper, brass, or whatever, and paper patch to size. No sizing needed, no excess bore wear, lower pressure, full velocity, and great accuracy.

[trench]

I"ve cast out of tin ("lead free solder), which is actually 5% antimony and 95% tin. The bullets will be very lw, relative to lead, obviously, quite hard, altho they do take the rifling at 2000 fps in a .45 auto. I used a 155 gr swc Lee mold and hollow based the bullet to 80 grs. Your POI on the target will be vastly different than lead, but lead cast bullets vary a lot, in rifles, at least, from POI of jacketed spitzers, too. I'm afraid that you will have to travel further, to hunt in another state.

[Mal Paso]

I do believe 'lead free' will spread throughout the country. I also believe that the Lymans Lees et al will come up with some handloading/casting solutions such as a sabot system. In the meantime, I'm not sure what we could do with our current equipment to turn out a lead-free expanding projectile that would fit in a home-grown sabot, but I'd well imagine the engineering folks here could think something up...........

How dare you Sir! We should be in full denial. We can't have Boolit Casters "believing" Lead Free.

[Ronbo256]

Mal Paso, that lost wax method is one of best ideas for casting non-lead, a buddy of mine cast a bunch of of parts for a working model steam engine that way in the early '80s out of brass. He also used the vacuum method to eliminate air pockets. Bismuth is the only metal I can think of that we might be able to cast in a similar manner to how we cast lead.

[trk]

I have cast lead-free solder into bullets. There are seveal commonly available blends - one 96/4 tin/antimony and my favorite 96% tin 3.5% Silver and 0.5 % copper.

It casts into STONE COLD molds perfectly. It takes a loooooong time to cool.

It tests at 42-43 on the ROCKWELL B scale for hardness. (Same as copper jacketed bullets).

[Mal Paso]

Mal Paso, that lost wax method is one of best ideas for casting non-lead, a buddy of mine cast a bunch of of parts for a working model steam engine that way in the early '80s out of brass. He also used the vacuum method to eliminate air pockets. Bismuth is the only metal I can think of that we might be able to cast in a similar manner to how we cast lead.

IIRC the vacuum was used on the mold to get the air out of the plaster before it hardened. The centrifuge was open air. You could use the same rubber mold technique to produce quantities of wax bullets to be joined by wax sprues into a larger casting. Multi Cavity. A furnace was used to burn the wax out of the mold and drive off the last bit of moisture.

But Officially we should declare anything non lead, heirisy.

[Ronbo256]

Mal Paso, you are probably right, the vacuum was for removing the air bubbles from the plaster. I was in the Air Force while he was doing this , so I only got to see a few parts of what he was doing when I came home on leave. I've had a little experience designing equipment used in cast iron and aluminum foundries, but nothing directly involved with the molds themselves. I agree, invest in precious metals, buy lead!

[HollowPoint]

Virtually all the lead I use to cast bullets with was given to me for free. In a "lead-free" hunting area, this could be a loop-hole for me to jump through.

I'm afraid that if the "Greenies" gain more power, the whole country will eventually drift toward "lead-free hunting.

I've wondered how it might be possible to make my own lead free bullets. Most of the ways I've thought of have already been mentioned.

If you anticipate firing only two or three rounds you could conceivably use copper BB's imbedded in a barrel friendly epoxy.

I used to watch the body-shop guys where I used to work as they used their Spot-Welders. At the time I wondered if there was a way that I could rig up a spot welder to liquify a small chunk of copper or brass to form in a bullet mold.

I never got around to looking into it any further than just wondering about it but, if the chance presents itself, I might give it a go.

HollowPoint

[Judan_454]

I think all this lead free stuff is just a way to make it too expensive hunt and to limt are gun rights. But to say that lead free will spead across the United States not always true. Just because they do it other States does mean it has to happen your State. You have elect officals that understand and the science behind our point of view. I hunted with cast bullets this year never fired a shot and the years I did get vension it was only one shot for one deer. We as hunters reloaders and bullet casters have speak out if we dont are hobby will die.

[wallenba]

In the worst case scenario...that lead is banned in all ammunition (not really likely ), what would the next most economical 'go to' substitue be?

[Judan_454]

One thing you remember is to follow the money trail, wouldnt be in ammuntion manufacters best interest to go lead free. This would force all of us bullet casters stop casting bullets. We would have to go buy lead free bullets from Hornnady,Sierra,Speer and all other bullet manufacters with the high cost of copper and brass it greatly reduce the amount of compitive shooting,target shooting and plinking, shooters do.Which would greatly reduce new people from entering the sport of shooting and reloading because the expense which would greatly reduce the number of people that use guns. And isnt that would that gun banners want, to make the cost so high that people can't afford to shoot.
I know its the slippery slope theroy but its one step at a time for the Anti-Gun people.
Just my thoughts.
Great forum guys I love it.

[MtGun44]

Lead free is based on the highly dubious claim that it harms condors. Never saw one in
Kansas, and all other reasons are totally bogus. The antis have repeatedly tried to close
ranges due to "lead contamination" and "potential to contaminate ground water". The
only problem with their arguments is that repeated testing shows that lead does not
migrate. IIRC lead oxide is essentially non-water soluable at normal conditions.

I doubt we are headed "lead free" nationally.

Bill

[HollowPoint]

Lead-Free or Not, it would still be great if one of us guys came up with a way to make our own "Lead-Free" bullets wouldn't it? I mean good usable and accurate shooting and hunting bullets.

I believe it would go a long way toward pulling the rug out from under whomever it is that's behind the "Lead-Free" BS. I'm also sure that such a discovery would be countered with some other bogus claim with the intent of stifling our shooting or hunting sports.

There's are enough functional brain-cells in this forum alone to come up with an alternative to lead if need be. Things just haven't gotten bad enough to warrant that kind of necessity.

HollowPoint

[Hang Fire]

I would love to move, this place is F-ing nuts.

I have done a little more poking around and it looks like the melting point of copper is just shy of 2000F. Without shopping too hard I found a jewelers kiln that will go to 2400F for about $350.00 new. Seems to me this could make sense dollar wise rather quickly, assuming a home cast copper bullet performs reasonably well.

In regards to shrinkage probably the simplest thing to do is chase down someone with a kiln and cast a few to see how they come out. This would allow for some experiments sizing too.

If I was going to cast copper boolits, think I would just go the lost wax route with centrifugal injection (AKA spin casting) to insure fill out. It would only require a simple set up and should be able to get quite a few on one tree.

[Hang Fire]

Dang tricky submit finger.

[Whiterabbit]

I have cast lead-free solder into bullets. There are seveal commonly available blends - one 96/4 tin/antimony and my favorite 96% tin 3.5% Silver and 0.5 % copper.

It casts into STONE COLD molds perfectly. It takes a loooooong time to cool.

It tests at 42-43 on the ROCKWELL B scale for hardness. (Same as copper jacketed bullets).

Holy ****. I'm trying this. What's the weight difference for a given bullet? 90%? 85%?

This is outstanding. I don't care if home depot is charging $15 a pound for lead free. Worth it.

Hey OP, here's some perspective. I live in CA and because I don't care to worry about where I am when I am hunting, chose to switch to only non-lead for all hunting regardless of location. Took a pig in Mendocino recently using a Barnes TTSX even though Winchester CXP2 would have been more than fine.

After two full seasons of hunting I haven't gone through two boxes of bullets yet. And that includes big game loads, varmint loads, and sighting in before every trip. That also includes my initial load development. At $35 a box retail (less online), it's cheaper than that jeweler's kiln.

Of course as time goes by I shoot less and less jacketed at the range and more and more cast

[Whiterabbit]

Which would greatly reduce new people from entering the sport of shooting and reloading because the expense which would greatly reduce the number of people that use guns. And isnt that would that gun banners want, to make the cost so high that people can't afford to shoot.


Just my thoughts.

Welcome to Europe.

(in my limited experience)