Gold and purple and blue... Oh My!

[morme@gte.net]

I used a 1/2 ton arbor press. Here is the description

http://mattheworme.blogspot.com/2011...ester-for.html

Perked my interest.
I have been thinking of making a simple, hardness tester that uses a dropped weight. Is that what you did?
How about some more info please?

[Longwood]

I used a 1/2 ton arbor press. Here is the description

http://mattheworme.blogspot.com/2011...ester-for.html

Thanks for the info.
I am thinking of trying a different approach but have no idea yet how well it will work.
I am going to try a good sized, round, hardened steel weight, that I have and drop it down a long piece of rod that has the bottom end inserted into a piece of 1" steel plate that I already have on hand.
I figured that I would use some ingots that I know the hardness of by testing on a quality tester at a friends machine shop, then using my machine, make dents in each one that I can measure, then compare future tests to. I only need "Close enough".
One nifty thing I learned from you is to use the wax to hold the balls in place for the test. Very clever! I am terrible with math but I have a friend that is a genius that will help me if need be.

[morme@gte.net]

Good luck. take pix and let us know how it works.

[Longwood]

Good luck. take pix and let us know how it works.

Do you think it would work?

Not to worry about hurting my feelings. I am a lot more grown up that some people on here and not only take constructive criticism quite well, but also know to use it instead of getting my panties all up in a bunch.

[morme@gte.net]

I have no idea how it will work. I believe in KISS. keep it simple ......
Brinell used the idea of force applied to a ball and measuring the diameter of the indentation a long time ago. What's the easiest way to do that?

I like the arbor press because it is consistent, and can change the force. I just increased the force on my press to 187 lbs (by adding a scuba weight I had around). I did it because I wanted a larger impression to make measuring it with my calipers easier.

My latest cast bullets are BHN 24 after hardening several days. With 187 lbs, the indent dia is .080. with 127 lbs force, the indent dia was .067. if I boost to 300 lbs (about 16lbs on the arbor press arm), the dia would be about .100. The larger diameter is easier to measure accurately with strong reading glasses and calipers. The Lee hardness tester applies 60 lbs force. That would make the indent .047. Smaller indents also magnify errors. In the 35 hardness range, at 187 lbs, .001 difference =BH 1.2 With 128.5 lbs, .001=1.4 diff and with 60 lbs, .001 diff = BH 1.9 At those ranges, I would add more weight. at 300 lbs, that .001 dia difference is only BH 0.9 Looking through the Lee microscope, I could not see both ends of the scale at one time which made measuring difficult. WAY too hard to judge by accurately for me, which is why I returned it.

This is a hobby. The idea is to have fun. For me, part of that is mucking around with different ideas. Try yours just for the fun of doing it.

BTW, I highly recommend using a Harbor Freight 1/2 ton arbor press. They are cheap, and you would be surprised how handy they are to have around the shop. A reloading press can be used, but for the $35 the arbor press costs, you can still use the reloading press to reload.

I see difficulties with your method. Drag on the tube won't be consistent, and the ball not heavy enough. The indent dia has to be reasonable. you can't try for a .250 dia indent on a .277 bullet. You have to measure actual bullets, not lead ingots because they harden differently as they cool. Ingots will be much softer.

Brinell,s rule says the force applied has to be 1 to 5 times the dia of the ball squared doing the indent. dia in mm, force in Kg. ie 2mm ball needs 4 to 20kg force.

[Longwood]

Thanks for the reply.
Answers inserted. In blue, hopefully!

I have no idea how it will work. I believe in KISS. keep it simple ......
Brinell used the idea of force applied to a ball and measuring the diameter of the indentation a long time ago. What's the easiest way to do that?

I like the arbor press because it is consistent, and can change the force. I just increased the force on my press to 187 lbs (by adding a scuba weight I had around). I did it because I wanted a larger impression to make measuring it with my calipers easier.

Yup, me too.

My latest cast bullets are BHN 24 after hardening several days. With 187 lbs, the indent dia is .080. with 127 lbs force, the indent dia was .067. if I boost to 300 lbs (about 16lbs on the arbor press arm), the dia would be about .100. The larger diameter is easier to measure accurately with strong reading glasses and calipers. The Lee hardness tester applies 60 lbs force. That would make the indent .047. Smaller indents also magnify errors. In the 35 hardness range, at 187 lbs, .001 difference =BH 1.2 With 128.5 lbs, .001=1.4 diff and with 60 lbs, .001 diff = BH 1.9 At those ranges, I would add more weight. at 300 lbs, that .001 dia difference is only BH 0.9 Looking through the Lee microscope, I could not see both ends of the scale at one time which made measuring difficult. WAY too hard to judge by accurately for me, which is why I returned it.

The bigger sized dent and not having to use the little microscope is my main reason for the experiment. I have a bigger microscope if it turns out I need it.

This is a hobby. The idea is to have fun. For me, part of that is mucking around with different ideas. Try yours just for the fun of doing it.

I totally agree with you.

BTW, I highly recommend using a Harbor Freight 1/2 ton arbor press. They are cheap, and you would be surprised how handy they are to have around the shop. A reloading press can be used, but for the $35 the arbor press costs, you can still use the reloading press to reload.

I will certainly give it a try if my trials turn out to be a waste of time. There is a Harbor Freight near the hospital I go to but I can't seem to get out of there without spending more money than I intended, if you know what I mean.

I see difficulties with your method. Drag on the tube won't be consistent, and the ball not heavy enough. The indent dia has to be reasonable. you can't try for a .250 dia indent on a .277 bullet. You have to measure actual bullets, not lead ingots because they harden differently as they cool. Ingots will be much softer.

Good to know, I had heard that I would need to clean off or machine a spot on ingots. The weight I have is fairly good sized cylinder and I can always make it heavier. Plus, I will try dropping it from different altitudes. Yes, I am concerned about drag but I figure I may put a Teflon sleeve on the rod which by the way, is only 5/16".

Brinell,s rule says the force applied has to be 1 to 5 times the dia of the ball squared doing the indent. dia in mm, force in Kg. ie 2mm ball needs 4 to 20kg force.

I havs seveal balls of different sizes. The weight I presently have weighs a little over 4 lbs. Do you know how high it would have to drop to make 20kg of force?

[morme@gte.net]

No idea on the force. 20kg for .1 second will not produce the same indentation as 20kg applied for 30 seconds. Brinell is not impact. The force has to be applied for 30 seconds to get consistency.

An automatic drill hole center punch with a rounded end might accomplish the same thing.

[eldoradolee]

Sounds like pure lead to me, I still have ingots smelted years ago with the blue streaks in them. When I cast minnie balls I see the yellow/blue/purple hues form on top the melt, just keep casting bullets come out fine. Test an ingot for hardness, I'll bet it is real soft stuff close to a 5.

I agree with swheeler 100%.It's pure soft lead.

[morme@gte.net]

Don't flux. Heat low. skim off dross and throw it away. Do this several times. You will end up with soft lead. I hate to throw away antimony and tin, but these can be replaced.

[vidiot]

Have you harmed your lead or the alloys when you overheat to the point of these color hues? I have always thought this was overheating--but confirmation is nice..

[VA Shooter]

I got some alloy at scrap yard and the guy said it was babbit well I melted and it looked just like the pics on this thread and took a lot longer to set up than my ww alloy I don't know what to do with it I might try to lower my temp and see what happens THIS IS A VERY COOL SITE

[AndyC]

Speaking of colors... *ahem*

A batch of reclaimed berm boolits smelted with a turkey fryer recently - obviously the temp was way too high, but it looked cool:

[nicky4968]

Glad I found this thread. I use a small pot, lead, and a dipper for my single-cavity Lyman 35891 mold for my target rounds (just perversity; I use bottom pour and #2 Lyman allow for all else). I thought some of my prize pure lead purchased years ago had become contaminated. Nope, just had it too high.

[Wolfer]

Before I got one of lee's hardness testers I would take two bullets from the same mold one of known hardness( a buddy had a tester) and one of unknown. I then placed them nose to nose in a vise and cranked it down. Not very scientific I know but I could tell if they were harder,softer,or about the same.

[letsmeltlead2693]

I have some lead that made many colors. Its is a rainbow color and is butter soft. I have some muffin ingots of this stuff too.

[ladydocs]

I have read everything in this line as I love all the information in here. I am not a boolit caster, I am a jig manufacturer. I have a #10 lee pot. I have never even heard of fluxing before, but have seen all the brilliant colors of the rainbow in my lead pot, including the hot pink. I believe i have pure lead, i just pour and go.

I just bought some "soft lead" on ebay, and dealer stated it was mixed with tin. I think I may be casting too hot, my jigs look shiny for a few days, then they are a get really gray. Is there any way to fix this? I have to paint them and am wondering if the paint will stick.

I have been to Tinsel town with the tinsel fairy a couple of times...but i loved all your stories as now I don't feel like a dumb girl, men have experienced the same fear as I have, and probably have screamed as girls do...lol

So, my question is this, if I turn down my pot, will that make the lead less likely to oxidate so fast, and keep them shiny longer.

Any help would be great.

[fishhawk]

I do about 3000 jigs a year and have had no problem with darker jigs holding the paint. The paint i use is from component systems and is there vinyl paint. steve k

[ladydocs]

Thanks Steve,

I also am using component systems for painting the jigs, although I have decided to go with the water-based paint...less toxic to my health...i hated painting with vinyl....sick to my stomach the first hour of painting....

have an awesome day.

[AndyC]

Lead is going to oxidize regardless of the casting temperature, unfortunately

However, if you're painting over them, does it matter how shiny they are underneath?

I have been to Tinsel town with the tinsel fairy a couple of times...but i loved all your stories as now I don't feel like a dumb girl, men have experienced the same fear as I have, and probably have screamed as girls do...lol

I'll admit to at least a surprised squeak

[mdevers]

That is tin oxide you are skimming off. Flux it back in.

New to casting as well and noticed the smell colors on wheel weighs I collected myself. I too have been skimming g some of it off. No more. Thanks