M die for pistol ?

[FWest]

I see the M die mentioned for rifle reloading. Is it needed for pistol caliber loads when reloading lead ?
I asked at the local gun, ammo, reloading store and was told only needed for rifle.

[oldhickory]

They're correct. Pistol die sets, (3 dies) come with an expander die. Some rifle sets come with expanders also, .45/70 & .30 Carbine come to mind right now.

[Guesser]

I buy old Lyman die sets at gun shows, flea markets, etc. I add the M-die from the old sets to what ever brand I'm using for a specific cartridge. This procedure gives me lots of options when working at loading, example: my 357 Magnum die set consists of 6 dies, basic RCBS 357 set from 1971, added Lee carbide sizer in 1984, added RCBS 38 round nose seater die and later a Lee taper crimp die. My 44 Magnum set is similar with the addition of a Lyman M-die and a Lyman 44 Special RN seater die. I mix and match most of my die sets to get the best of the available tools.

[deltaenterprizes]

I have had requests for custom expanders for the LEE powder thru dies for specific sized expanders and make them like a Lyman "M" die. Maybe I need to call them "N" dies!
The complaints about the factory dies is that do not expand the case enough and swage the boolits down when seated in the case causing leading due to undersized boolits.

[FWest]

I'm new to this so just to understand. Due to the larger diameter of lead boolits vs jacketed or plated, the Lee expander included with the carbide die sets does not expand anything more than the case mouth, causing the lead to be unintentionaly resized smaller causing leading issues ?
The M die does more than flare the opening and can be adjusted to a certian depth to stop the resizing of lead ?

[462]

I use only Lyman M dies, whether for handgun or rifle. Your local store have you some incorrect information.

A Lee expander die doesn't expand, it flares, while a Lyman expander die expands and adds a small step which allows the boolit/bullet to sit squarely in the case, as it enters the seating die. A Lee die allows the boolit/bullet to enter the seating die at some other, odd angle.

Also, Lee seating dies will swage down a boolit. I've had Lee dies put the squeeze on boolits .001" over nominal size. Lyman dies, on the other hand, have readily accepted and properly seated boolits up to .006" fatter.

Experience has proven to me that Lee dies are designed for bullets and Lyman dies are designed for boolits.

[FWest]

Thanks for the information. I guess I will be needing another few sets of Lyman dies and turrets.

[9.3X62AL]

Lyman die sets are about the lead-friendliest. RCBS sort of "assumes" jacketed bullets with their internal dimensioning, though their Cowboy Die Sets are a little more accomodating.

The Lyman Powder-Thru-Expander Die spuds are VERY lead-friendly for most of my handguns. They subtract a full die step on my turret/Ponsness-Warren regimen, too.

[theperfessor]

i make my own M type expander plugs for my RCBS dies for the very reasons 462 points out. I can control neck tension and set the bullet straight in the case before seating.

[AZ-Stew]

Here's a post with a photo and explanation of the M-die.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...1&postcount=12

For what it's worth, the expander used in the Dillon progressive presses is more of a flaring tool than anything else. It does expand the case some, but I believe it, too, is designed more with J-bullets in mind. It works, it's just not as good ad an M-die.

Regards,

Stew

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I was having leading problems with my .38 and .357 boolits. 462 told me about the M die and he was correct. My Lee dies were swaging down my boolits. The M die did the trick for me.

[prs]

I have used M dies for rifle and RCBS Coyboy dies for pistol. J word bullets of the same size as cast boolits do better with a tighter fit (so I am told) and almost all the die sets are made with J word bullets in mind. RCBS seem to have limited availability of Cowboy dies now, but I notice the larger suppliers do sell the internal size/bell components that fit the same die case. I recently picked up those for 32 Win Spcl, 30-30, and another set for 45 Colt.

prs

[Bob J]

I use only Lyman M dies, whether for handgun or rifle. Your local store have you some incorrect information.

A Lee expander die doesn't expand, it flares, while a Lyman expander die expands and adds a small step which allows the boolit/bullet to sit squarely in the case, as it enters the seating die. A Lee die allows the boolit/bullet to enter the seating die at some other, odd angle.

Also, Lee seating dies will swage down a boolit. I've had Lee dies put the squeeze on boolits .001" over nominal size. Lyman dies, on the other hand, have readily accepted and properly seated boolits up to .006" fatter.

Experience has proven to me that Lee dies are designed for bullets and Lyman dies are designed for boolits.

This..... I have M dies for all my cast boolit loads both pistol and rifle.... For those not sold by Lyman I have them made by buckshot here on the forum....

[Pepe Ray]

Lyman die sets are about the lead-friendliest. RCBS sort of "assumes" jacketed bullets with their internal dimensioning, though their Cowboy Die Sets are a little more accomodating.

The Lyman Powder-Thru-Expander Die spuds are VERY lead-friendly for most of my handguns. They subtract a full die step on my turret/Ponsness-Warren regimen, too.

I don't know why this tool has fallen between the cracks. For cast BOOLET shooters in hand guns it is the cats whiskers.

The set comes w/ 2 length capabilities and 7 different caliber sizes plus 2 optionals available.
It's been available since 1996 (the date on my inspectors stamp).

LYMAN -- - - Look it up!!!!
Pepe Ray

[markinalpine]

I got my first M die to straighten the mouth of .45 AP cases that were getting dinged on the way out of my pistol. did such a great job, I got others to either straighten or round those case mouths. I hardly find it necessary to bell the mouths of cases anyway.
Merry Christmas,
Mark

[35remington]

I thought it was worth mentioning that in rifle calibers the M die offers little over what a simple flaring of the neck can do. A flaring tool is all that is needed.

Typically the parallel sided section on the M die expander plug is no different in diameter than the expanding button in the full length die.

Sometimes the M die is smaller!

Kinda lays to rest the claims of superiority for the M die with cast bullets in bottleneck rifle calibers.

Before arguing the point, measure your M die expander and compare to the expander in the full length die.

Then we likely won't have much to argue about.

[44man]

Pistol or revolver?
Harden the revolver boolits and use case tension. When you use soft lead and open brass too much, you threw the accuracy out with the baby water.

[405]

With Jbullets, gas checked bullets or fairly hard plain based bullets there may be only a small advantage in using an M die or similar for loading. HOWEVER, there is little choice when loading straight walled cases with fairly soft plain based bullets. Either simply flare the mouth and HOPE the bullet starts straight or is not swaged down or use an M die or similar and be assured the bullet at least starts straight. One advantage I see when loading any cast bullet (and even some Jbullet loads) is that the M die or similar expands the neck and can flare the mouth in one operation and those two operations are in perfect alignment. The Lyman M die has the short step between the main expander shank and the flaring step to further aid in clean, straight bullet alignment when seating. That short step is usually about .090" long and is enough to align the bullet when the base is placed in the case mouth prior to seating- I see that as another large advantage in the system. And, I see similar advantages when loading bottleneck cartridges. With those, I pull the decapping pin out of the sizing die. I use a universal decapper. I use the M type die for neck expanding. For pistol cartridges the RCBS Cowboy is the common choice in certain calibers and Lyman offers a pistol version M die for their handgun calibers.

I had some M type expanders sitting on the bench and decided to measure just for some info. in case someone is looking to purchase and may not know the specs.... at least for these calibers.

RCBS Cowboy 45LC---main exp. shank .451----no short step
Lyman M 45R----------main exp. shank .454----short step .459
Lyman M 45RC--------main exp. shank .457----short step .461
Lyman M 30R----------main exp. shank .307----short step .311

Custom M type expander plugs/dies with or without the step can be ordered from various sources. I've used the ones sold thru BACO for some really out of norm sizing for odd calibers and paper patch loading.

[FWest]

The info you guys offer is Boolit wisdom, Thanks.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Amen to everything 462 said. I "M" die all the cases I load with lead. I make my own "M" dies so I can get exactly the diameter I want.