Primer shortage solution

[delmar]

as an aside, does anyone know if they still make the "tap-a-cap" unit that made percussion caps from pop can material and roll caps?

As a total worse case put meat on the table scenario rifle the flinty is king, black powder can be made at home, however my boys and I dont have a flinty but do have some nice percussion front stuffers, with home made percussion caps we would be well served for a long time.

Also, how corrosive is the compound roll caps are made of? How many primers can be "reloaded" per button from roll caps?

Thanks

Jeff

Midway USA carries them but the website says they are on backorder.
Date Expected In-Stock: 1/14/2010
I'm told however that they don't work as well with modern roll caps as they used to with the caps you could buy when the Tap O Cap was designed. I think the government made the caps "safer"! If you buy one and it doesn't work as well as you like there is a primer recipe in Ron Browns E book Homemade Guns and Homemade Ammunition! That you could fill them with.

[Jim]

.....Also, how corrosive is the compound roll caps are made of? How many primers can be "reloaded" per button from roll caps?

Thanks

Jeff

I have no idea how corrosive the compound in roll caps is. I get pretty O/C about cleaning my guns, so I'm not worried about that. As for how many primers can be reloaded from one roll cap button, I get one per button. When I punch out the center, the perimeter of the button goes in the trash. As cheap as they are, though, I can afford to get several boxes when I stop by Wally World.

[Linstrum]

First off before I continue about roll caps, antimony trisulfide powder is still available from pottery supply and some chemical supply companies as both a pottery glaze and fireworks ingredient, and I would highly recommend getting a pound or so before it gets yanked off the market like sulfur and saltpeter already have. Easy to make primers that work well NEED the antimony trisulfide to work right so get it while the getting is good. And it is cheap!

Roll caps used to use red phosphorus or phosphorus trisulfide, sulfur, and potassium chlorate mixture, which produces a very corrosive residue of both potassium chloride salt and the family of phosphoric acids including orthophosphoric acid used for flavoring Coca Cola and several other soft drinks.

I don't know what they use now, but I have several thousand rolls of the old formula toy caps I bought from K-Mart and Wal-Mart about ten years ago when I bought my Tap-O-Cap tool. Those caps work pretty darned good with the Tap-O-Cap aluminum can primers in my Remington 1858 cap and ball revolvers.

That particular formulation for toy pistol caps is related to what the Frankford Arsenal #2 priming compound is that the U.S. Military used for all .30-06 and .45 ACP ammo from World War One through Korea. The .30 carbine ammo used the old original Stain-Less non-corrosive primers from the get-go in World War 2. The Frankford Arsenal mixture ingredient % recipe is given in Gen. Julian S. Hatcher's book Hatcher's Notebook, and contains antimony trisulfide, sulfur, and potassium chlorate with a small amount of finely ground glass to increase sensitivity and hoof/hide glue as the binder. I have used it and it works just like it is supposed to. The roll cap and Frankford recipes are also very close to strike anywhere matches, that is why SA matches work well. They are all corrosive.


rl698

[Jim_Fleming]

Thank you, Sir.

HEB is a Texas grocery store chain.

G

[Bert2368]

I've probably mentioned this before here, but-

http://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Powd.../dp/0913022004

Tenney Davis' Chemistry of Powder and Explosives has a great deal of information you might be interested in. It was written as an introduction to the explosives arts for students during WWII when a great number of new students had to be brought up to speed on the technology in a hurry. It's a classic, and you don't need a degree in chemistry to access it.

http://skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp?Sort=A

Skylighter has what you will need.


http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5400-7.pdf

The BATFE "orange book"- Federal explosives laws and regulations. Because ignorance of the law is not a valid legal defense.


Be careful out there. There's not much more dangerous than friction and shock initiated priming compounds.

[preparehandbook]

I know this is an old thread, but I found it and read it, so others likely will.

I wanted to relate a very minor mishap I had while fiddling with shotgun primers some years ago.

I was reloading shotgun primers, using a blunted nail to tap out the firing pin dent, then using a matchstick to press in 3-6 strike anywhere matchtips into the cup (white part only) I then pressed the primer cup back into the pocket.

At some point I decided to expedite the process by crushing up more than one primer's worth of matchheads, I was smart enough to use a plastic paint scraper to cut the white tips off, and a wooden work surface, but I was stupid enough to accumulate about a teaspoon full of tips (maybe 30). I walked away to do something and WOOOSH they went off on their own making a pretty yellow fountain of flame and a scar on the table. Luckily all other combustibles were safely stored elswhere.

I had ignored the warning not to crush more than a few matchheads at once. I just didn't see why it was a risk, but it was.

I'm not trying to be a worry wart or a naysayer, just wanted to relate how my shortcut nearly caused a serious accident. I'm too old to mess with such things anymore, but wish all the luck to those who choose to make their own primers.

[delmar]

I know this is an old thread, but I found it and read it, so others likely will.

I wanted to relate a very minor mishap I had while fiddling with shotgun primers some years ago.

I was reloading shotgun primers, using a blunted nail to tap out the firing pin dent, then using a matchstick to press in 3-6 strike anywhere matchtips into the cup (white part only) I then pressed the primer cup back into the pocket.

At some point I decided to expedite the process by crushing up more than one primer's worth of matchheads, I was smart enough to use a plastic paint scraper to cut the white tips off, and a wooden work surface, but I was stupid enough to accumulate about a teaspoon full of tips (maybe 30). I walked away to do something and WOOOSH they went off on their own making a pretty yellow fountain of flame and a scar on the table. Luckily all other combustibles were safely stored elswhere.

I had ignored the warning not to crush more than a few matchheads at once. I just didn't see why it was a risk, but it was.

I'm not trying to be a worry wart or a naysayer, just wanted to relate how my shortcut nearly caused a serious accident. I'm too old to mess with such things anymore, but wish all the luck to those who choose to make their own primers.

Thanks for the input. Caution is a good thing!

[Linstrum]

What you had there was a workbench "hang fire"!

x x



rl873

[preparehandbook]

What you had there was a workbench "hang fire"!

x x



rl873

Too true.

I never looked at it that way, but sooo true. I've always been grateful my paw wasn't there when it went woosh, and that it didn't go POW.

[GaryS]

Thanks for opening up this old thread. I'm a noob a making boolits myself. Been there with the caps when I was a kid. Not going there again. Good luck to everybody and stay safe.

[delmar]

I just re read this whole thread. I had forgotten that this forum was the place where I got some of my best ideas and inspiration! castboolits.gunloads.com ROCKS!

[camaro1st]

midsouth shooters supply still has some

as an aside, does anyone know if they still make the "tap-a-cap" unit that made percussion caps from pop can material and roll caps?

As a total worse case put meat on the table scenario rifle the flinty is king, black powder can be made at home, however my boys and I dont have a flinty but do have some nice percussion front stuffers, with home made percussion caps we would be well served for a long time.

Also, how corrosive is the compound roll caps are made of? How many primers can be "reloaded" per button from roll caps?

Thanks

Jeff

[danr]

i just read the entire thread, and i know its an old thread, but i thought i would add my 2 cents to it anyways..

from my experience, i've discovered some things about match sticks and cap gun caps used as primers. in relation of connetic force needed to set them off while in a primer cup.

a small device with a swinging arm and measuring device was setup, so that i could raise the arm to a specific height, and releasing the arm would swing down hitting a primer contained in a makeshift case held in place by a piece of pipe.. i was able to work 2 different shells to hold both small and large pistol primers.. with this i was able to measure the amount of connetic force needed to set primers off, and compare them to factory primers.

my findings where that compared to factory:
cap gun caps, required MUCH less force to set them off. around 1/2 of the force. the brand of the caps used affected the results, the higher (* better ones, with more powder *) required much less force than the "poor less powder" caps. even the poor caps required about 1/2 of the force needed compared to factory.
with match heads (* white tips only from SA matches *) the force needed was about 1/4 of the force compared to factory primers. brand made no difference. it should also be noted that the amount of material added to the primers, did affect the force need greatly.. less material needed more force to set off.. where more match heads added need less force to set off. also breaking down the match heads down with water, then using a wet mixture then allowed to set, resulted in much less force needed to set them off.

this data i was able to obtain allowed me to see that there is an extreme risk of a case going off if it is bumped while not in a chamber. dropping them could cause them to go off.. where factory primers needed MUCH force to set them off, makes them far more safer to handle. dropping a loaded case with factory primers, no problem.. you can even throw it up into the air, have it hit square on a rock and it will likely not go off.. but if you use match sticks or cap gun caps, it could go off just dropping the things.

rifle primer cups needed more force to set off than pistol primers.. so if anything, you can make things a little safer by using rifle primer cups for pistol homemade primers.

next, i added a swing arm to the end of the primer testing unit.. this swing arm resisted swing back, and so when the primer was set off, the pressure from the primer pushed this arm outwards, so that i could measure the amount of force the primer had. with this i was able to compare factory primers to my homemade ones.

results:
cap gun caps (* 1 cap of poor quality *) was less than 1/4 as powerful as factory standard primer .. where as 2 caps resulted in less than 1/2.. adding more caps to the primer does increase pressure from the caps.. but not equal to 2x with 2x primers. i think this had to do with the cap powder, it can only produce so much pressure, adding more doesn't increase pressure uniformly. also i noticed that some primers made resulted in erratic results.. some would produce far less, where others where far more pressure.. but even the extreme ones where no where near factory primers.

match stick primer compound (* white tips only dry pressed into cups*) resulted in some pretty good results.. they where very close to factory primers, about 3/4 of factory.. but the results where very erratic. some did as low as 1/4 where others where right at 1:1 of factory. this has to do with the amount of white tip powder that was added.
match stick primer compound (* wet compound then allowed to dry *) resulted in much better results.. the results showed that the amount of pressure was more uniformed between each of the primers made, but less performance.. i used tap water, so i think contamination affected these results. the results where about 1/2 of what a factory primer was, but it was uniform between each of them.

each test was about 10 primers of each.. the factory primers that where tested where NOT magnum, and where CCI primers. some time when i get a chance, i'll test the different brands to see how they compare, but money is a limited factor and as is my time.

this device that i made did make it possible for me to measure and tune the homemade primers to perform the best that they could.. resulting in some very good homemade primers.. i've loaded and fired more than 50 of them made from match sticks, and never had a single miss fire or hang fire.. all fired off very well.

for anyone who is serious about finding an alternative to factory primers, i strongly suggest working in SMALL quantities, and be sure to make a test unit to test your home made primers.. how would you know just how well they do if your just test firing them in a chamber. doing so is like trying to walk a strait line in the dark or blind.. you need a way to measure your results and record them.. so that fine tuning can be done.

i'll try and get some pictures of my test unit when i get a chance.. its been a couple of years since i packed it away.. so i'll see about digging it out sometime for everyone.

thanks,
Dan

[delmar]

Great stuff Dan! Thanks for the update!

[danr]

ah, found this online someplace.. it looks allot like the one i made, except it doesn't have the swing arm to test force to set off the primer. but its close enough to give you guys an idea of the test unit i used.

[mikeym1a]

"Extreme" being the key...

I've had the 31-210 almost from the time it was released to the genera public.

None of what is in there is in any way "safe"... but it ALL works.

It's a much better and more practical SHTF reference than any "cookbook" you can buy at your local NinjaMart.

Pardon my ignorance, what is 31-210?

[Smoke4320]

TM 31-210 Improvised Munition Handbook.... Army manual

[victor3ranger]

danr or anyone else who wants to chim in.

When making the match head primer compound. How is it that you are actually making your wet compound?? Are you just cutting the tips off of 2 of the match heads then disolving them in water to make the slurry?

[oldred]

Ok this is VERY old and while it is interesting about using strike anywhere matches just try to find those rascals these days! Strike anywhere matches are harder to find than ready made primers and those that can be found are not the same as the ones from just a couple of years ago, the newer strike anywhere types (if you can even find them) have extremely small striking tips with only a tiny fraction of the amount of compound the old ones had. I have even read reviews on the ones sold on Amazon and most are so bad that some of them won't even light, good info it's just the right matches are simply no longer available.

[victor3ranger]

I was reading in the other thread about potassium perclorate but where do you find the stuff and how do you perpare it for use?