lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[bmiller]

Screwbolts recipe is in the group buy results section. And I saw it somewhere else. 21.5 grains of 844 I think. (22 NATO thread) I had better results with the sandstrom 9a product. I tried 27a first, and I would get leading. The 9 a is much tougher. I think it is a commercial grade product. I just put it in a big plastic bowl with a lid and shook it. Then cured it in my toaster oven. They stressed it needed to be absolutely dry before baking. I usually baked it a day or two after I coated the bullets. I have been able to push bullets coated with the hi-tek faster without leading. But the sandstrom stuff works too. The hi-tek product seems much cleaner in the weapon. My 6" para p18 had black gunk in every nook and cranny the last time I cleaned it. Switching over to the hi-tek , carbon does not seem to build up as fast. Believe it or not , my rifle bores had the most carbon build up with powder coating. Your results may vary.

[bmiller]

Are you going through Hi-Tech ammo of St. Louis for the wc844?

that's a pull down powder, right?

I am back on page 36 of this thread, reading it backwards.

No, a friend is going to sell me some. I need to find a source if it works.

[Russel Nash]

I am on page 29 of this thread, still working backwards.

I had a short diversion on St. Louis Craig's List looking at the conveyor type pizza ovens. LOL! just what I need.

[HI-TEK]

No, used a gas check. Working up the nerve to try it without a gas check .

So, how did you go without gas checks?
Have you had a chance to try some?
Please post your findings
Joe

[bmiller]

I have not shot them without gas checks yet. Maybe this weekend.

[garym1a2]

Given how this material is applied, does anyone have a preference on the type of bulet used for 9mm?
I am wondering if a 9mm tumble-lube type design is better than the one with conventional grooves?
I have not had time to try more in the week.

[HI-TEK]

Given how this material is applied, does anyone have a preference on the type of bulet used for 9mm?
I am wondering if a 9mm tumble-lube type design is better than the one with conventional grooves?
I have not had time to try more in the week.

Many locals here now use projectiles without lube grooves with coating on it.
The lube grooves were originally incoroprated, from my understanding to accomodate wax/grease that slid down the barrel with alloy, with intent to wipe a lubricating slik surface inside barrel.
When using same projectiles, even if you do not get coating inside grooves, it should not matter at all, because the coating prevents alloy from contacting barrel. With coating, the lube grooves really becomes redundant.
Many claim, that coated, no lube grooved projectiles shoot better, and they are also heavier for same calibre, as alloy takes up lube groove area making the projectile heavier.
Tumble coating technique also applies a more even film where there is no grooves and flat surfaces.
On knurled type surfaces, the coating tend to fill depressions, and level out bearing surfaces.
Many use extruded projectiles, that are more consistent with weight and diameter and look like mini solid cylinders with flat ends. When coated, they work well.

[TES]

Yea I plan on having a guy trim out the lube groove on my molds..

[Wal']

Yea I plan on having a guy trim out the lube groove on my molds..

Why ruin a perfectly good mold................they work just as well with the lube groove, been shooting them for years with the standard mold groove's.

[HI-TEK]

Why ruin a perfectly good mold................they work just as well with the lube groove, been shooting them for years with the standard mold groove's.

In many respects, I agree, that if the mould is OK why make it into another type.
However, many like the heavier projectile produced by removing lube groove.
I suppose it is something that may suit some and not others.
I have seen old moulds that really were producing some fairly ordinary projectiles, and were worn out.
Accurately milling them out and polishing will then provide new life for the moulds, and a new style of projectile.

As I said previously, coated projectiles with lube grooves work well with the Hi-Tek-Lube coating and possibly with other lube systems. Others also use non lube groove projectiles and I suppose it is the user which considers which they like.
If they are sized correctly for specific end use they should all work.

[Wal']

Could you then point me in the direction of the manufacturers of these non groove boolits here in Australia...........have never seen any advertised for sale as yet ??????

[HI-TEK]

Could you then point me in the direction of the manufacturers of these non groove boolits here in Australia...........have never seen any advertised for sale as yet ??????

I know for a fact that Top Score produce a 9mm 129 grain Conical, 138 grain round nose, 150 grain round nose, 165 round nose,
and also in 38 special, in similar grained cast projectiles all without lube grooves.
From what they had advised, they cannot make them fast enough despite running 7 days a week.

It may be the same for Spartan Projectiles & Hawkesbury River also may have similar, but I am not sure.
Visit to their web sites or contacting them may help.
Joe

[TES]

Why ruin a perfectly good mold................they work just as well with the lube groove, been shooting them for years with the standard mold groove's.

I imagine that the lube grooves hold more of the coating material than a smooth boolit and when considering doing hundreds of thousands of rounds the savings should add up. More surface area translates to more coating material. This was a consideration that I had when I was thinking about electroplating.

[popper]

No lube grooves would give more 'bite' to the rifling, add some extra friction and make the boolit stronger torsionally. I don't know if a very shallow groove would be better than no groove. No groove means the displaced lead has to travel a long ways and may give a big tail at the base.

[Revolver]

As per my initial results quoted below I did up another batch of the same bullet loaded up for 45ACP. This time I mixed the solution days in advance and then dilluted the mixture further with Acetone just prior to application. I tumbled in a small container for 5-10 seconds, obtained full coverage, let them dry, then bakes for 9 minutes at 375. I then repeated for a second coat.

The bullets look completely different, with a glossy shine. The coating did not diminish during sizing like the original batch however the end results are identical on my barrel after only 10 rounds. Maybe even worse.

Do I need to bake longer?

I need some assistance. I bought some of the Hi-tek from Bayou Bullets, I guess its Black color. Anyhow, I tried it for the first time yesterday 5 parts coating, 5 parts acetone, 1 part catalyst. The issues I encountered were that the coating would dry before I finished tumbling, so it didn't get into the grooves on the first coating. On the second coating I managed to get full coverage but they were still dry to the touch after only a minute or two of tumbling. Each coating was baked at 375 deg for 8.5 minutes in a preheated toaster oven. They passed the smash test and the acetone test. I sized them, loaded them, and thought I was golden but after only 10 rounds through my 45ACP my barrel was full of crud. See pic below. Could you advise me on what I might be doing wrong and how to improve my results? Thank you.

Attachment 66700

[HI-TEK]

I imagine that the lube grooves hold more of the coating material than a smooth boolit and when considering doing hundreds of thousands of rounds the savings should add up. More surface area translates to more coating material. This was a consideration that I had when I was thinking about electroplating.

With the HI-TEK coating, there is no advantage at all if lube groove fills with coating. In fact it is a waste, as the coatingis a solid, fused into place, and will not migrate as would with wax or other similar lubes.
Usually if coating ends up inside lube groove it is an over application of the coating, and excess will end up being suqeezed into lube grooves during coating process.
Any coating in the lube groove has no metal separating role, and it simply adds to costs as lost lube.

[HI-TEK]

As per my initial results quoted below I did up another batch of the same bullet loaded up for 45ACP. This time I mixed the solution days in advance and then dilluted the mixture further with Acetone just prior to application. I tumbled in a small container for 5-10 seconds, obtained full coverage, let them dry, then bakes for 9 minutes at 375. I then repeated for a second coat.

The bullets look completely different, with a glossy shine. The coating did not diminish during sizing like the original batch however the end results are identical on my barrel after only 10 rounds. Maybe even worse.

Do I need to bake longer?

Can you please advise what was colour before cooking and what was colour after cooking?
Why did you leave catalysed mixture for days before diluting & using it? How was mixture stored and specifically for how long?
I can help with this, but you need to be more detailed in what you did with coating, and describe in as much detail as you can, so I may try to diagnose what went wrong.
You did not mention any thing about sizing diameter, and your barrel bore diameter, and may be this is also something that needs to be considered when diagnosing the problems you are reporting.

[Revolver]

Donnie said he was sending me black coating, so I assume that is what it is. My colorblind eyes are no good so all I can tell you is it looks gray and bakes darker.

I mixed 5-Coating, 1-Catalyst, 5-Acetone days in advance then just prior to application I thinned it with more Acetone. This time I mixed it in advance because I thought I had read on here that it was best to mix it in advance. The mixture was stored in a small glass jar in my garage (about 50 Fahrenheit or 10 celsius).

I sized the bullets to .452 which has always worked well for me with no leading.

I have a feeling that this time my coating was too thick and perhaps not baked long enough. I baked for 9 minutes at 375 F in a preheated toaster oven doing a small batch of only 50 bullets. Perhaps they need to cure a little longer?

[2old2play]

I have been a member here for about 3 years and this is my first post. I'd just like to start off by saying that I have received a lot of help in my casting endeavor by reading all of the helpful posts. This particular thread is very interesting to me. I don't want to write a book here, so I'll try to be brief. I have been in contact with the owner of Westcastings in Western Australia in hopes of importing his coated projectiles to the USA. As was stated in this thread previously, the exchange rate of the USD/AUD prevents this venture at the present time.

I am a distributor of polymer coated bullets made in the USA designed and patented in a country in Europe. I don't want this to be flagged as spam, so I'll not say what I sell nor who makes them in my first post. I am interested in moving from distribution and sales to casting and coating and sales. Joe, I like your product and see myself using it on my castings.

I would like to know if there are any plans to increase the color palette to include lighter colors? I remember reading colors include red, brown, green and black, are there any others? There are some Lady shooters who want pink.

Thank you,
2old2play

[TES]

With the HI-TEK coating, there is no advantage at all if lube groove fills with coating. In fact it is a waste, as the coatingis a solid, fused into place, and will not migrate as would with wax or other similar lubes.
Usually if coating ends up inside lube groove it is an over application of the coating, and excess will end up being suqeezed into lube grooves during coating process.
Any coating in the lube groove has no metal separating role, and it simply adds to costs as lost lube.

what I was saying is what you are saying.....coating in the lube grooves is wasted material....so remove the groves from the mold.