So Many Questions...my brain hurts!

[Captain*Kirk]

OK, so bear with me here on this little diatribe. I've been on the forum here for a few weeks and have been itching to try casting for my centerfire rifles (I already cast for my ML pistols and rifle) and have been bouncing back and forth. See, one of the main reasons I'd consider casting for CF is cost savings. But, the startup costs are throwing me a little. I've been on Midway's site pricing out things, and if I miss my mark, I'd have to do quite a bit of casting just to break even on the equipment! To use Midway's prices (sort of middle-of-the-road, from what I see) I come up with the following, based on casting for my .35 Remington:
LYMAN-
4500 Sizer 128.00 w/o heater
157.00 w/ heater
Sizer die .358 19.99 per caliber
Top punch (each) 8.99 per bullet style
This comes to 158.98 or 185.98, depending on whether or not I get the heater. (Do I need the heater? Why or why not? )

RCBS Lube-A-Matic 2 164.99 (no heater offered)
Sizer die .358 28.99
Top punch 15.79

This comes to more, $209.77 to be exact.

Or say I want to go SAECO......
SAECO Lubrisizer 182.00 (no heater mentioned?)
Sizer die .358 36.99
Top punch 15.49

Even more yet.... $ 234.48. Hardly inexpensive. I could buy a lot of jacketed bullets for that kind of layout. This only takes into consideration one caliber. I'd also potentially cast for two handgun calibers as well.
This also doesn't take into consideration moulds (and handles)

LYMAN- double moulds 53.56
handles 30.00
Comes to $83.56, if my math is correct

RCBS-double moulds 67.77
handles 33.00

Comes to a little over $100.00 for ONE CALIBER (OK, so yeah, you can use the handles on other moulds.)

And then, Lee comes along with their Alox sizing die that costs.....$15.00??? Huh?
And it works on my Rock Chucker? I realize there aren't a lot of fans of the Lee Alox stuff on this forum, but how bad can it be? I mean, 15 bucks.....
Of course, Lee doesn't sell a bullet mould for a .358 200gr bullet. (of course they don't, silly!) And the one thing people have mentioned regarding the Lee sizer is, it's OK IF you use the Lee moulds because the tolerances are tighter. Can I use the Lee sizer die with a Lyman or RCBS moulded bullet? Why or why not?
Gotta tell ya, I'm a little discouraged. If I can't save money on casting for CF guns, there's not a whole lot of push behind "get'n 'r dun". Jacketed bullets are
still readily available, and not that expensive. Am I missing something here?
Can somebody please 'splain all this mumbo-jumbo to me in layman's terms?

[SciFiJim]

Actually, there are quite a few Alox fans here. One of site sponsors (Lars) sells a generic version called Xlox. Consensus is to cut it with Johnson Paste Wax (JPW) to thin is some. HERE is a great guide to tumble lubing.

On the sizing dies, Lyman and RCBS fit both machines. You can use the less expensive Lyman dies in a RCBS Lubersizer and vice versa.

You are right though on Lee push through sizers being a less expensive way to get started. I used tumble lubing exclusively until my wife gave me a Lyman Lubersizer for Christmas (she's pretty awesome).

[lwknight]

Some people are religious about casting boolits. Hence the jargon word " boolit"
I enjoy it and it is a necessity for shooting on a budget. From novice to expert the learning curve never stops

A good factory jacketed bullet for a rifle could cost from $0.30 up to your imagination. Even on the cheap , its $200.00 per 1000 so savings could add up fast.

The #15.00 Lee sizer will work on any cast boolit that even resembles the right size.

For lube, you can pan lube without any fancy equipment although slower in my thinking.
There are great discussions in the "Boolit Lube" section about lubes that will get you to or near to jacketed velocities and performance. Often in the big bore, cast is better than factory jacketed bullets. And at a fraction of the cost.

Alox is good enough for most pistol and revolver loads.

You really do not need much equipment to make a go of it. Those that hang in there usually acquire more fancy tools gradually over some years. Besides if you had money galore and went out to get the top of the line everything , it would just go to waste when you lost interest because there was no challenge to keep it interesting and you would never fully appreciate each addition to your tool box nearly so much.

[Mk42gunner]

Lee sizing dies work well; you can either use the liquid alox that comes with the sizing die or pan lube. There is a great sticky on panlubing with a couple of different ways to do it.

I'll be honest, when I started casting bullets the cost of a lubrisizer and dies about put me off the idea. I got an RCBS Lubamatic off ebay relatively cheaply. This was several years ago, before all reloading gear went nuts on prices there.

You can still find used items for sale at various places if you scrounge around a little bit.

RCBS and Lyman sizing dies interchange, so I buy whichever is cheaper when I have to buy a new one. For a flat nosed bullet used in alever action I use a cut down bolt for a top punch- cost about five minutes of labor.

For your .35 Remington you could try a Lee 158 grain mold for a .357 to see if you want to continue.

Oh yeah, almost forgot to answer this; you don't need a heater unless you are using a hard lube.

Good Luck,


Robert

Boy I am a slow typist, three posts in front of mine...

[mooman76]

There's no reason you have to start out big. If your head is swimming I'd start out slow and work your way up. Alox is fine to start off. Lee moulds work good too. You already have the stuff to ladle cast so I'd stick with that until you deside you need better. If you want a more expemsive mould Lee 6 cavity handles will fit Lyman and with a hair ground off will fit RCBS too and for a fraction of the cost. You might want to see if you can hook up with someone who is already set up so you can see how everything works. I started out cheap and it can stay that way or you can jump in like some and go all out. Your choice.

[2Tite]

If you shoot a lot or want to shoot a lot.........cast........the more you shoot the more you save. If you only shoot occasionally, then buy the bullets.....you can buy cast and save or you can shoot j-bullets. Buy quality.........always......You will never regret it. Forty years ago I bought used reloading equipment and it's serving my grandsons and I well. They probably won't have to buy anything but powder and primers when they take over my stuff. Some of the molds I use are 75 years old ,many were made in the 40's and 50's. My point is that by buying quality equipment and passing it on or sharing with friends you make an investment. Twenty years from now it won't seem nearly as expensive as it does now. At that time inflation and hindsight will make you glad you did it. If you watch this forum a while you'll soon realize that the resale value of your equipment maintains steady value and there is constant demand for quality equipment. It really depends on how much you will realistically use the equipment and how much pleasure you'll find in throwing your own bullets. Just another opinion and worth everything you paid for it...........................

[Ben-WSU]

I have been thinking of getting into casting for a rifle, too. I just started casting for a pistol, so I already have the basic equipment. For me, I am sticking with Lee equipment for now, given that it is well made, inexpensive, and I will probably not wear it out with my limited use.

Here were my initial thoughts:
*Lee sizing die with a bottle of Alox, ~$15 per caliber
*Hornady Gas checks, ~$30 per caliber
*Lee Mold, ~$20 per caliber
Totals around $65 per caliber.

If you want to go with a more expensive mold, then:
*Lee sizing die with a bottle of Alox, ~$15 per caliber
*1k Hornady Gas checks, ~$30 per caliber
*Mold + handle, ~$75
Total is ~$120 per caliber

If you do not want to use the Alox tumble lube, then you can try pan lubing. There are lots of videos on youtube.com that show how this works. The setup cost is a few dollars for a silicon baking dish and the lube. White Label Lubes has a good selection of lubes, and I think is a sponsor here.

I don’t know about using other brands of molds with the Lee sizing die. I was casting with my hand on the sprue handle of the Lee 6-cavity mold that I own and noticed fins on some of the bullets. My grip was opening up the mold a little. Some bullets from that casting session were a little hard to get through the sizing die, but the reloading press gave me enough leverage to get them through.

[Bullshop Junior]

For Center Fire Rifles no Alox - No no, very bad.

You can get the Lee push though sizer dies that work on your rock chucker. Get a good Lube and pan lube.
Yes you can use the lee sizer with any boolit design.

Also, if you do decide to get a lubrisizer, get the RCBS. It is worth the extra money.

Moulds - That depends. Lyman, RCBS, Saeco and Lee all make good moulds. The lees are not as good as the others, but are good, and will last a long time with proper care. Moulds really depend on what style boolit you want.

Lube heaters- You may or my not need a heater depending on several thing.

#1 - What kind of lube you are using
With our Speed green lube (soft lube - Good for hi FPS) we don't use a heater. With our SGC (Speed green with Cordoba) we do have to use heat.

#2 - What is the temp where you are working? if you are working out side with no heat, it makes a difference over working in side with heat.

One other thing.

Remember - A lot of folks sell this stuff used. You can check E-bay, and the Gun auctions, and the Swapping and Selling forum here. You can even post adds on craig's list and such saying that you are looking for that kind of stuff.

Also - A lot of the stuff you buy you only have to buy once. If you get a RCBS Lube-O-matic, you only have to get one. And unlike the Lyman, if you break it, even if it is your fault, they will fix it for free.

I will ask my dad, but we may have a old Lyman #450 Lubrisizer, that we might sell. If I find out, and the answer is yes, I will PM you a price.

[Greg in Malad]

Kirk,
Liquid Alox works fine on rifles, Ranch Dog molds were designed for it. I dip the lube grooves in a bowl of alox, then stand the bullets up to dry. It might take a couple of dips to fill the grooves, but it works and you can't beat the price. In fact the .30 cal Ranch Dog bullet with liquid alox outshoots bullets ran through my lub-a-matic. I'm getting 2000 fps in the 30/30 with no leading and better accuracy than jacketed.

[Bass Ackward]

NEVER EVER think in terms of dollars when evaluating cast equipment. Think in terms of boxes of bullets and how long it would take you to shoot those bullets.

If the equipment is NOT caliber specific, you must look at all the calibers you shoot, not just what you want at this time.


After that many boxes of bullets, your stuff is free. But it can be resold and money recovered where bullets blown down range are gone. I am more than doubling my money on everything I own (still giving the buyer a great deal) of quality except dies and LEE molds. But a Lee is what, 1 to 2 boxes of bullets depending on caliber?

[Bret4207]

Start with a Lee set up, fly the boolits low and slow till you get the hang of it. Remember some moulds can be used nicely for bunches of guns just by sizing them differently and the Lee does that as well, if not better, as the other more expensive stuff. Shop around and buy used. The Lyman 4500 sizer isn;t the tool the 450 is from what I'm told and neither is as good as an RCBS. I have an RCBS, a 450 and an old #45 and all work fine. You don't need a heater, just use a drop light or old blow dryer to warm the sizer if you are casting in a cold area or using hard lube (yuck!). Handles are also found used and you can make handles too.

This can be obscenely expensive or relatively cheap to get into. It all depends on what you want to do.

[462]

I didn't start casting to necessarily save money, though it was certainly a consideraton. I viewed it as a way of being as independent as possible of a fluxuating gun-related market caused by the maloderous winds that blow out of state and federal orifices, and as a time-occupying, relaxing and enjoyable hobby.

Boolit casting and a C&R license are means by which I can thumb my nose at government.

Regarding a heater, a clamp-on light or, if in a hurry, a propane torch work.

[Willbird]

Well to think properly about cost, we must consider resale value.

So take all the things you looked up the complete total cost shipped to you, then have a look here in the swap/sell and on the evil auction site, and deduct the resale value from the new price, the difference will be your actual COST.

I agree that you can start out with just a single or double cavity LEE mold, a push through sizer, and some pan lube. I HATE liquid Alox so I would not suggest a mold that will ONLY work with liquid Alox.

In fact to start you really do not even need the push through sizer, but shipping costs are as much as it costs so you might as well snag one while your ordering stuff in case you need it.

[Bullshop Junior]

How fast are you planning on shooting your cast at?

If you shoot them Full Speed Ahead like I do, I don't think you would want to use Alox.

[Ben-WSU]

I like Bass Ackward's point, consider the payout time. This was part of my decision to get into casting bullets.

I wanted to load a bunch of 38 special. Plated bullets cost ~$110 per 1k. I bought all my casting equipment new for under $200 (I got Lee products). Then I bought lead at $1/lb. 1000 158gr bullets takes about 25 lbs of lead.

So, I save $85 per 1k bullets, and need to shoot 2k bullets to break even. That will take a while for me.

On an asside, years ago I read the RCBS cast bullet manual. They talked about buying a melter and a lube-sizer. I priced out their equipement, and came up with over $600 to just start. I was happy when I revisited casting later and thought to buy lee products. Don't get me wrong, RCBS turns out a nice product and has great customer support. I own a bunch of their stuff. But, you pay a premium for it. My lee equipment turns out ammo that is just as accurate for a much lower start up cost.

[gray wolf]

May I simply ask how much you shoot?
Would you shoot more with more ammo available to you ?
would you rather go shooting or go to a football game, car rally, watch TV, go shopping,
sit in easy boy and drink beer, drink beer while standing and looking at easy boy, fly kites, watch someone else shoot, chase women, fix the car,???????
How much do you spend on shooting (be honest now) $_________________

If you enjoy the sport--and it sounds like you do-----and wont go into hock for the reloading
equipment, then set a start up budget--the guys here will help you save as much as possible and have good equipment.
I just loaded 2 boxes of 32 ACP for the wife, cost in the store proly about $30.00.
cost me--primers $1.50--powder $.25--bullets $00.00. TOTAL $1.75 per box.
savings =$26.50 on the 2 boxes. That = go a head Hun shoot another box.
Most my hand gun ammo runs about the same, powder changes a little.
Now go find some lead.

Trying to help out-----I write the way I think.

Edit to say--when it's not so freeking cold out I shoot three time a week. At least 200 rounds of 45==three if the wife sees the 45 Acp and she has good eyes so say 300. plus 150 for her 40
and now at least 100 for her 32acp. and Some black--
Wow how the hell do I have time for all that and split wood, take care of the garden and play with the dog??
For me we did the math and it was simple.

[Recluse]

For Center Fire Rifles no Alox - No no, very bad.

Sorry, but that is an opinion and not a fact.

Ever see any of the groups Ranch Dog got with his (centerfire) moulds/boolits using LLA?

And he's not the only one.

[blaster]

Sorry, but that is an opinion and not a fact.

Ever see any of the groups Ranch Dog got with his (centerfire) moulds/boolits using LLA?

And he's not the only one.

I agree. I run nothing but Alox in my AK.

[jlchucker]

Not to screw up anyone's math here, but one can often pick up some pretty good bargains on used equipment and molds in our "Swappin' and Sellin'" thread. You can even get some really good buys at yard sales, from individuals, and on occasion at gun shows. A used mold in good condition that has been well cared for will generally give as good results as a new one.

[Heavy lead]

I started casting because I couldn't buy good boolits, that simple, next thing you know I'm probably 1k into it and love it, maybe 2k, I don't know! I have way more moulds, sizers, blah, blah, blah that I need but it's fun. I started out with a RCBS 2 cavity, lee handles (need some file work) lee push through sizer and alox, and a lee 10 pound pot. If I were to start again, I would do and recommend the same thing, except cut the alox with JPW. I just don't like lee moulds, sorry, buy a iron mould, two cavity and learn the art.