Would You 45-70 a Big Bear with a Big Boolit?

[Suo Gan]

Would you 45-70 a big bear on purpose? And if so what boolit? I am writing this because many have suggested its use in Alaska on bear with j bullets (I assume). Are there any of you who would intentionally seek to make a bad bruin good with a boolit, or is that insanity?

I wonder what the bear guide would say if you broke out a Lee Loader and frying pan in camp, popped some wheel weights out of your pocket and started getting the Lee 457-500 up to temp?

What boolit would you use? All the best guys, SG

[use enough gun]

I'd be game to try a heavy pure lead boolit and patch it, pushing it at maximum velocity. Dave

[waksupi]

I would most certainly use a cast boolit.
I have a friend who used to hunt Africa every couple years, who always used cast for his hunting. He wasn't shooting big toothy things, but he said they worked better than most jacketed bullets, and his PH was impressed by the killing power.

[corvette8n]

Garrett:
540-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GAS-CHECKED HAMMERHEAD AT 1550-FPS
shot some pretty impressive large game in Africa,
with proper shot placement should do ok on bears

[Lloyd Smale]

shot enough big game with cast out of a 4570 to know they work. Even the 405 rcbs rf is a great killing bullet.

[TDC]

+1 what everyone has said so far......

[superior]

Hunters in Africa are finding the 45-70 lever action to be a serious stopping rifle against the big 5. That being said, I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a bear defense gun. Large cast boolits work great from what I've read. Go to Garrett amunitions website and read the testimonials from hunters in Africa. One hunter said that after the slug punched through 3 feet of elephant skull, they heard it whistling through the trees! That should be enough power. The Marlin guide gun would be my first choice in big bear country....short, powerful, and plenty of fire power.

[dominicfortune00]

Anybody remember when Mythbusters were testing the myth that its safe to hide underwater when being shot at?

They found that the solid cast lead boolits from a civil war musket would penetrate a lot further into water than rifles using fmj bullets.

The stresses from penetrating the water would tear apart the fmj bullets, while the boolits just plowed along.

I figure it must work pretty much the same way when it comes to big animals, that's why the boolit was able to penetrate 3 feet of elephant skull and keep on going. While a fmj would probably not make it out of the elephant skull.

[SharpsShooter]

A cast boolit of 400+ grains at 1400fps and above would not make me a bit uncomfortable facing a bear. Actually, I have a 360gr load that hits 1600fps that would be fine also.

SS

[1Shirt]

Guess I would say use what you have. I would have no problem with 45-70 and blts of abouot 400 gr or larger, preferably with big wide flat nose!
1Shirt!

[dk17hmr]

I have a 450 Marlin that I push 325gr "Hammer" bullets out of the barrel at close to 2100FPS, and 425gr Ranch Dog bullets at about 1700fps. 45-70 can match that in a good strong action, I wouldnt have a problem with using it.

[CATNIP-45]

I used the LEE 457 500 gr gov g c Boolit on a Black Bear recently, worked great.
Boolit cast of 50\50 ww & pure lead, I hollow pointed it with a 1\8'' drill bit with a 3\16th depth.4570 loaded with duplex load of 6 grs of IMR 4227 with 67 grs of 2ff goex.
penetration, about 40 inches from 35 yds. The Bear was facing me straight on.
Entrence was at the base of the throte & exited under the poop shoot. There was no tracking involved.
With the big Bears I would skip the Hollow pointing, But would go with softer than straight ww. Shot placement is still the best recipe for sucsess no matter how big or fast the Boolit is. Have fun.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Remember the 45-70 had been SMASHING critters since the US ARMY decided to down caliber the 50-70 1870 trapdoor in 1873 to 45-70. BIG bears have been blasted ever since with well placed 1-20 400+ boolits. I do not remember who first chambered that fine old cartridge but I would not be surprised if the Rollers & Sharps were not already slinging hot lead across airspace and harvesting HUGE critters.
I would not hessitate taking my 1881 Marlin 45-70 hunting any bear with a 450 grainer and 63 grains of 3F. I would rather have a 1886 Winny (Jap) and a 450g with enough 3031 to get it popping along at 1800+ fps. Hundreds of Elephants were shot with alot less and millions of "old Shaggies" died out on our plains with less powerful projectiles.
I would prefer a range of 50 yards and less and hopefully not an angry monster charging at me at full run.

[elk hunter]

["I do not remember who first chambered that fine old cartridge but I would not be surprised if the Rollers & Sharps were not already slinging hot lead across airspace and harvesting HUGE critters."]

I believe the first 45-70 was the 1873 Springfield. This round came about after much government testing. Sharps didn't chamber it until about 1876, considering they went out of business in 1881? , it's truly amazing how many rifles they chambered for it.

I've never shot a Big bear but wouldn't hesitate to use the right 45-70, meaning my Marlin or my Mauser, with a hard cast 400 flat point bullet moved along by a healthy dose of 3031, 4198 or R-7.

[Potsy]

I'll probably never get a chance to shoot a big bear, but I don't know why my Ranch Dog
350's cruising along at 2000 wouldn't kill one quick.
For that matter, stepping up to 500 grainers, I can't imagine a reason not to open up festivities on a pachyderm.

[dsmjon]

I'd shoot a squirrel with a 45-70, and most definitely a bear with one. Just more meat left of the bear after it's all said & done!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

A friend here culled a 1000 pound buffalo at a 100 yards with shots ftom his Sharps using a common 420 grain FP of WW over 62 grains of ffg in 45-70.

Kneeling, first three completely penetrated lungs/heart artery area broadside and exited, Fourth in there too, but recovered as it fell out of the hide on hoisting the buffalo for skinning. The buffalo never took a step after the first shot. BvT.

[jlchucker]

I've never shot any bear with a 45-70, big or otherwise. Many others who post here and on other forums have. The only thing I have to go on about this is published info or opions of those real hunters--and history. Big Bears with a 45-70? Are big bears tougher than even bigger Bison? How many buffalo herds are still roaming wild in the west after about 1885 or so? Back then the 45-70 was used on lots of those buffalo herds, and most likely on big bears as well. That was long before the days of whizbang shortymag rifles. Did the bear and buffalo species evolve to be any tougher, except maybe in the opinions of some of the gunrag writers? It's probably a good thing that the old time bear and buffalo hunters of years ago were mostly illiterate and couldn't read mags like Guns & Ammo and Shooting Times or we'd be overrun with buffaloes and bears today!

[largom]

Can't think of a better caliber for ANYTHING in North America.
Larry

[shunka]

Great bear medicine . Best if used in a stronger action than the trapdoor, but even that is a great game-getter. It will take Pretty much anything on this continent. get a copy of "Forty Years with the 45-70"
quite an eye-opener.
shunka