Experience with indenter/crimp tool

[barrabruce]

Anyone used such a tool.
Pliers like ; that indents the neck to keep lead bullets in.
I am starting to play with such an idea.
I haven’t a loading tool for this case but finger seat the healed cast bullet in my 310 cadet cases.
After a while some cases get a bit thin around the neck area and the bullets want to fall out , even if I use a bit of lube to keep them in.

I found a crimp tool of sorts I can indent my cases and keep the bullet in the case.
Good for me Whoohoo.

I’m hoping that the indent expands some with firing and make the next bullet seated into the case a firm fit.

If not it will tear a groove down the heal of the bullet and make a mess of accuracy and my barrel.

Anyone have much experience in indenting brass cases.

I will report when I get time to fire them.

Thanks.
Bruce.

[BK7saum]

No experience with a hand plier-type crimper, but this is also how the rifle-type factory crimp die works. Is there a way to use or modify the FCD for your cartridge in a standard press?. It would likely yield more consistent results as it actuates off of the ram stroke.

This may not be the route you want to go, but you could possibly lighlty crimp an empty case to get a bullet to "snap" in or be a light press-fit without distorting the case. Not knowing the plier type crimp you want to use, I have concerns of making the case oval or otherwise distorted.

Just another option, if it could work for you.

If the crimp would tighten enough (.335 nominal to 0.327- nominal), the M1 carbine FCD could be shortened to collet crimp the 310 cadet case. (1.290 shortened to 1.12).

It is easy to shorten the crimp insert. I am just not sure if the collet will close the extra 0.008".

It might be a relatively cheap alternative.

I have a 300 blackout FCD I could check and see what the maximum crimp is (ID with collet closed all the way.

If this would work, you could also crimp your loaded cartridges to survive a bit of rougher handling.

[Barry54]

No experience with a hand plier-type crimper, but this is also how the rifle-type factory crimp die works. Is there a way to use or modify the FCD for your cartridge in a standard press?. It would likely yield more consistent results as it actuates off of the ram stroke.

This may not be the route you want to go, but you could possibly lighlty crimp an empty case to get a bullet to "snap" in or be a light press-fit without distorting the case. Not knowing the plier type crimp you want to use, I have concerns of making the case oval or otherwise distorted.

Just another option, if it could work for you.

If the crimp would tighten enough (.335 nominal to 0.327- nominal), the M1 carbine FCD could be shortened to collet crimp the 310 cadet case. (1.290 shortened to 1.12).

It is easy to shorten the crimp insert. I am just not sure if the collet will close the extra 0.008".

It might be a relatively cheap alternative.

I have a 300 blackout FCD I could check and see what the maximum crimp is (ID with collet closed all the way.

If this would work, you could also crimp your loaded cartridges to survive a bit of rougher handling.

Would it work to grind open the gaps wider on a Factory Crimp Die to make it crimp deeper/smaller diameter?

[BK7saum]

Would it work to grind open the gaps wider on a Factory Crimp Die to make it crimp deeper/smaller diameter?

It probably would at that. The FCD can already put a hefty crimp on 30 cal cases. If the 0.327" is loaded diameter, the OP may only need to crimp to 0.329 or 0.330 anyway.

But widening the gaps on the collet, it should easily allow the collet to crimp tighter to a smaller ID.

[racepres]

It probably would at that. The FCD can already put a hefty crimp on 30 cal cases. If the 0.327" is loaded diameter, the OP may only need to crimp to 0.329 or 0.330 anyway.

But widening the gaps on the collet, it should easily allow the collet to crimp tighter to a smaller ID.

The Die does Not need to be pushed all the way... unscrew it a bit!!!!

[Barry54]

The Die does Not need to be pushed all the way... unscrew it a bit!!!!

This discussion about getting the die to close further is part of a discussion about using the die for a cartridge different from what it was manufactured to work on.

Cheaper than having a custom die made...

[BK7saum]

The Die does Not need to be pushed all the way... unscrew it a bit!!!!

!!!!!Nobody is saying screw the die all the way in for the caliber the die was designed for!!!!!

The case mouth is nominally 0.008" (0.327") smaller than the FCD desgnated caliber (0.335")

This situation may require srewing the die all the way in or even modifying it to crimp even tighter.

You do understand we are talking about modifying a 30 carbine FCD for use in a 310 cadet heeled bullet cartridge, correct?

Of course, a FCD doesn't need to be screwed in all the way for the intended/designed catridge.

[Wayne Smith]

Check Old West Molds. He modifies the Lee die for heeled boolits and probably already has one for the 310 Cadet.

[BK7saum]

Check Old West Molds. He modifies the Lee die for heeled boolits and probably already has one for the 310 Cadet.

Excellent suggestion.

[K43]

EDIT: BK7saum beat me to it.

Lee Factory Crimp Die. Not only is Bob your uncle, it's been done, modified by some to allow better clearance for heeled bullets, etc., etc., etc.
I've seen electrical crimping pliers modified by someone too cheap to buy a proper crimp die. Same type of thing done to electrical crimpers to make a cheap bullet puller. The results were not as good as getting a real purpose designed die.

[barrabruce]

Gee Willikers Batman!
I didn’t think I’d get this much of a responce.

I looked up old west molds and yes they have a 310 crimp die.
This is a photo of the crimp from a pair of pliers which has wire stripping? Holes in it.

Any way I got thinking that I can seat a bullet and push it into the form die I use. Sizes the case to a 0.310 inside neck diameter and I need 0.315 for my heal base in fired cases.
No soot or blow by on the neck and better consistency.
And I don’t have neck troubles.
If I was smart and talented I could ream or machine out the neck area of the die to suit.
But I don’t think so.
In the past I had trouble loading in the die as withdrawing the loaded round I had used a screw driver to pry out the round that inevitably damaged the cases rims.
So I gave that up years ago.

Had a light bulb moment when I thought I would have to spend money and tapered off the de-re priming tool I knocked up I can now wedge the tool under the case and lever it out.
This rough fix will get me going again for a while I hope.

I had seen those oldie tapered one piece load dies they used back in the day but could never figure out how they got the loaded case out.
Maybe this is it.

Sorry for the hassle and somewhat swerve ball response.
Bruce

[barrabruce]

Whoops
Well that was all wrong in a way.
If I size my cases in the form tool that I have the, "old worn" case necks are still too loose.
Getting a tight loaded round out of the die if I use it and need it has been solved thou.

I got out my pipe cutter and formed a cannalure in the loose cases neck with seated bullet.
It works but it also rubs the seated bullet by the way it works.
Making a cannalure of a few thou in the empty neck works but can distort the neck some.
So I’ve decided I will make a cannalure in the empty case then put it through the size die to true things up some.
The bullets will now "click" in the case and hold the bullet from escaping.

Boy , lots of work compare to just finger seating in a formed case but them that breaks I suppose.

Please someone remind me to never try and scrape and clean out my cases ever again.
This is where I believe things started to go pear shaped when I tried to scrape out many firing of gunk from different fillers and experiments.
Scraping the inside of the brass clean.
What was I thinking.

So I’m in for a cannalure or crimp.
From past experience in cannaluring , eventually the brass hardens and it stays pretty well much as is and doesn’t need redoing.
But then the crimp is easy and there done on a case I find loose after I loaded it.

I shall have lots to play with now.

I might try one case of each method and just load then at the bench to see how multiple loadings hold up and perform.

(There goes another packet of primers and powder)

I may end up making a whole new batch of brass one day,using the same cases.
I do use the rifle for the service cadet shoots and if things get too hairy I will have to up my game to be competitive and get all benchresty/ultra longe range prepping and manicuring.
Even sort out bullets.


Bruce

[Cris T]

I make these for 22lr. Bernie at Old West Molds makes them for different calibers.

[barrabruce]

I make these for 22lr. Bernie at Old West Molds makes them for different calibers.

Unreal how you have made those crimp dies.
Hmmm
More food for thought.
Looks like a bloke could keep himself busy for a while.

[Green Frog]

Anyone used such a tool.
Pliers like ; that indents the neck to keep lead bullets in.
I am starting to play with such an idea.
I haven’t a loading tool for this case but finger seat the healed cast bullet in my 310 cadet cases.
After a while some cases get a bit thin around the neck area and the bullets want to fall out , even if I use a bit of lube to keep them in.

I found a crimp tool of sorts I can indent my cases and keep the bullet in the case.
Good for me Whoohoo.

I’m hoping that the indent expands some with firing and make the next bullet seated into the case a firm fit.

If not it will tear a groove down the heal of the bullet and make a mess of accuracy and my barrel.

Anyone have much experience in indenting brass cases.

I will report when I get time to fire them.

Thanks.
Bruce.

Bruce,

When I first saw this, I thought you must be talking about the 45-70 indenter tool system developed about 130 years ago by Ideal. They were used for downloading the Govt rounds for indoor armory use.

There was a plier type tool to put a set of evenly spaced indentations on the case neck and a fluted decapping rod to clear the dents during decapping. The problem was that the dents blew out with time and had to be re-dented, creating a weak spot at each dent, which subsequently blew out altogether. They didn't last long and are a real curiosity/collectible today.

Froggie

[Texas by God]

An automatic center punch(set correctly)will provide a decent stab crimp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[barrabruce]

All good ideas, thanks.

Froggy that was what I was trying to remember, and I even looked thou a squillion pictures of shotgun crimping tools and such but never found it.

Best was a real pointy adjustable depth one which most likes put a hole in the brass first go.

I had forgot about the fluted decapping pin to clear the indents.


The “ clicky" cannalure trick may end up being best if I make a tool for it.

Results may dictate the outcome.

lol
Bruce

[Green Frog]

Bruce,
The most thorough description of the Ideal tool in question, that I’ve ever seen at least, was in the Lyman Centennial journal they put out back in the ‘70s. I still see them around from time to time.
Froggie