dillon xl 650 primer kaboom (new-bee)

[cx4stormer]

hello, new-bee here. i just picked the dillon xl 650 two weeks ago, nice machine. i have reloaded with friends in the past however, i am new to the progressive. this past weekend i was moving right along loading .45 acp and KA-BOOOM! i set off a primer (winchester) that blow up (who knows how many) primers in the tube. put 24 holes in the ceiling tile, semi-f***ed up the machine.

i called dillon right away and they are sending out replacement parts.

i have a few questions, how/why did this happen? will it happen again? is it my fault? maybe a primer got flipped in the tube, i dont know. has this happened to anyone ?

any advice would be great. thanks.

[hotwheelz]

Do you have any pics of the press and the damage ? Might be easier to help tell what happened ...........

[No_1]

Can't say for sure with the info you provided. I know it might not seem relevant but how many loaded rounds were you producing per minute?

The machines are built tough with possible primer explosions in mind. That is why the aluminum primer tube is fully encased in a steel tube.

You did not mention any personal injury so consider yourself lucky my brother.

Will it happen again? Hard to say. Did you do something wrong? Again, hard to say. This has never happened to me (knock on wood).

Robert

[Sprue]

Welcome ! Glad all is well...

It happened to the local - commercial reloader guy a couple years back. He has a basement full of blue presses. I've also heard that the same thing happened to one of our range members as well.

We just have to be careful, not get in any hurry or let ourselves become distracted, employing saftey.

I don't recall what primers were said being used.

Regards

[Kraschenbirn]

Not the first time I've heard of this occurring with a Dillon 650. Shortly after they were introduced a gunsmith I know...former LE armorer certified by S&W to perform warranty work...bought one and blew up a tube full of primers during his first reloading session. Boxed it up and shipped it straight back to Dillon along with a check for the difference between what he'd paid for the 650 and the price of a 1050. That was around 20 years ago and the 1050's still bolted to the bench at the rear of his workshop. Another shooter I know blew the piece of delrin rod he was using for a follower in the primer tube through the floor of his living room...from the basement! Those are the only two cases where I actually knew the users, but I've heard, second or third-hand, a number of other similar tales.

Guess that's one of the reasons I've stuck with my 550 and SD the last 20+ years...never had a problem with either that wasn't attributable to operator error or something just plain wearing out from use.

Bill

[jonk]

Could be just bad luck. I've set 1 primer off seating, fortunately with a ram prime where it was the only primer being handled. Could be you goosed it in too hard. Could be it was sideways. Could be a lot of things; we'll never know.

Kraschenbirn, that's hats off to the guy you know from me.... even if a fluke, if I had a press blow a tube of primers the first time I'd used it, I'd send it back too... but NOT looking to upgrade to their top of the line model, rather asking for ALL my money back- including the cost of the primers.

[cajun shooter]

Try the orignal Lee loader for setting off primers. As I was sitting on the floor and loading 38 spl for the next days shoot in 68. BLAM next BLAM Wife was screaming to get that damn thing out of the house before you kill me and the baby!! Very happy you were not injured as those parts can't be replaced.

[mike in co]

without trying to pick on the operator, it was most likely operator error. there are tons of 650's in use and while it is not unheard of for a primer to go off , it is rare, not common.
my suggestion would be to slow down and pay attention to what you are doing. yes the machine is fast, but you need to work up a comfortable work pattern so you can feel when part of the process is not right,,,before it goes boom.

i believe dillon still reccommends some primers over others, i could be wrong. call them and ask how they feel about the winchesters.
how many rounds total have you loaded on the 650 ?

mike in co

( yes i have set off a primer in reloading. one in a lee loader, 222 in the early 70''s.....yep beating primers in place is asking for trouble. i use lee hand priming tools almosr exclusively today, singles and tray models)

[Texasflyboy]

i have a few questions, how/why did this happen? .

Primers are impact sensitive. An impact will set them off, be it the firing pin (as intended) or some other proximate cause (unintended).

In my experience with primer tube detonations, here are the causes I've discovered:

1. A primer hangs in the tube midway. The primers below continue to feed and a gap is created between the stuck primer and the primer feed mechanism. Machine motion, or human intervention may cause the jammed primer to suddenly dislodge and fall and the plastic primer rod slams down next. Either impact can cause a detonation if the fall distance is great enough.

2. Dillon presses require steady motion. Not slamming or jerking. Slow, but steady. Smooth. If you start jerking the handle instead of smoothly operating it, the primer can sometimes flip over, or turn sideways and be detonated any number of ways. But, this rarely causes a primer tube blowout as the primer has already fallen into the feed plate. Slow and steady is the cure. And cleaning.

3. Placing a weight on top of the plastic primer feed shaft to prevent #1 can cause a greater force to be applied to the primers if they jam up in the tube briefly. This cause, or slapping or whacking the plastic tube down into the primer stack can also detonate the primers.

Primer detonation takes some force to cause to primer compound to detonate. It's been my experience, and mine alone, that the proximate causes of a primer detonation are usually related to excessive force somewhere in the reloading steps.

As others have indicated, more info and or photos will greatly help in solving cause and effect.

[45nut]

This may or may not be significant, but upon receiving new primber tubes I use a 17 cal rod with a jag tip and run double ought steel wool through them about a dozen times in both directions to deburr the insides and smooth them internally. a pull through swipe would be just as effective.

Back when I had a rcbs piggyback the primer system was the number one reason for production failure, it was a true "lucas-electrics" engineering failure. The primer tubes were rough as a cob internally and the primers would indeed "stack" and then drop, inducing flips and upside down and sideways too often to have true confidence in the system. I never had an explosion but many was the time I had to crush the primer just to get the brass out of the shellplate and start the process over, that induced problems with the other rounds in the shellplate since it was a auto-indexing machine, the powder was all over the place, the problems cost me hundreds of primers,wasted and spilled powder and crushed case mouths.

I eventually picked up a used dillon 450 and learned that progressives were indeed capable and the auto-indexing was a feature I did not care for.

[unclebill]

Not the first time I've heard of this occurring with a Dillon 650. Shortly after they were introduced a gunsmith I know...former LE armorer certified by S&W to perform warranty work...bought one and blew up a tube full of primers during his first reloading session. Boxed it up and shipped it straight back to Dillon along with a check for the difference between what he'd paid for the 650 and the price of a 1050. That was around 20 years ago and the 1050's still bolted to the bench at the rear of his workshop. Another shooter I know blew the piece of delrin rod he was using for a follower in the primer tube through the floor of his living room...from the basement! Those are the only two cases where I actually knew the users, but I've heard, second or third-hand, a number of other similar tales.

Guess that's one of the reasons I've stuck with my 550 and SD the last 20+ years...never had a problem with either that wasn't attributable to operator error or something just plain wearing out from use.

Bill

it is not the first time i have heard of it happening with ANY KIND of primer system.

[Larry Gibson]

without trying to pick on the operator, it was most likely operator error. there are tons of 650's in use and while it is not unheard of for a primer to go off , it is rare, not common.
my suggestion would be to slow down and pay attention to what you are doing. yes the machine is fast, but you need to work up a comfortable work pattern so you can feel when part of the process is not right,,,before it goes boom.

i believe dillon still reccommends some primers over others, i could be wrong. call them and ask how they feel about the winchesters.
how many rounds total have you loaded on the 650 ?

mike in co

Agree with mike, most likely the operator was loading too fast or not paying attention to what was happening. Primers do not go "boo" by themselves in a loading operation. They get crushed most often which can make them go "boom". Same thing with the Lee Loader; do it right and no problem. Get excessive with the wacking and ..."boom". It's all in the operation.

Larry Gibson

[Mohillbilly]

I have crushed a primer that was in the priming cup sideways. My fault, as I was adjusting, the primer feed, and put way too much pressure on the handle of my 550b. It did not go off but I was just lucky . If it had detonated I don't think any harm would have been done, as it was wedged in the bottom of a case and not inline with the primer tube/stack...steady as you go and pay attention!!!!

[Sig shooter]

I did this same thing , the primers progressively get a bit more off axis .You notice a ram heel smear on some primed cases . I thought it was powder getting in the detent ball / indexing .

Well after talking with a dillon guy ( that reads these forums ) there is an alignment pin you can buy . It comes out of the powder funnel down to the primer ram . There is enough wiggle room on two screws that hold a shell plate base .

After that its dead nutz on .

Mine lit the disc up around to the tube , blew the primer feed rod out .Which ended up like a plastic snake in the corner . Nothing hit me and it all went in ONE bang "105" , the tube was trash. I saved the shell plate . They sent me a ton of parts to fix it .

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

There is a design flaw in the Dillon 650 where the primers are tracked from the primer tube all the way over to the where the primers are seated. If the press primer feed alignment pin out of whack and the operator gets a primer in a position to set it off, then the track is full of primers along with the tube is set off and there is a pretty dramatic explosion as all the primers are set off. This is what you experienced.

This is one of many reasons I own a Hornady LnL and not a 650. The Hornady design moves a primer far enough from the stack of primers in the tube that if one primer is set off by the operator (fairly difficult to do with the feel they have for the seating process) then only that primer will be set off and not those in the tube. That said, neither the 550 nor the 1050 have this particular design issue. Much safer designs.

Glad you weren't hurt in the explosion and I wouldn't blame yourself were I you.

Regards,

Dave

[cx4stormer]

thanks guys, to answer some of your questions. i cannot post pics, loading about maybe 10 rounds per minute, thank god i did not get hurt , i am 98% sure it was operator error.

after reading some of your posts i sat down at the bench and looked over the 650, here is what's toast, slide follower, switch lever, primer disc does not look to good but might be ok, primer magazine, one ceiling tile.

now, the machine started not moving as smoothly as it did the first 200 rounds i ran, in fact i recall one or two empty cases popping out of the priming station and being tossed across the bench ( should have stopped loading right there) it was only about 5 or 6 more loads after that when the boom happened.

i had loaded about 200 rounds with federal primers. the boom happened with winchester primers. does the age of a primer make a difference? the federal primers are new from the gun shop the winchester primers were given to me by a friend who had them in his basement for an unknown amount of time.

again, i would to thank all of you for your help. i started to enjoy reloading and went nuts buying all kinds of reloading gear but, if it happens agian my fault or not the 650 will gone from here.

[kevin45acp]

thanks guys, to answer some of your questions. i cannot post pics, loading about maybe 10 rounds per minute, thank god i did not get hurt , i am 98% sure it was operator error.


now, the machine started not moving as smoothly as it did the first 200 rounds i ran, in fact i recall one or two empty cases popping out of the priming station and being tossed across the bench ( should have stopped loading right there) it was only about 5 or 6 more loads after that when the boom happened.


again, i would to thank all of you for your help. i started to enjoy reloading and went nuts buying all kinds of reloading gear but, if it happens agian my fault or not the 650 will gone from here.

Brass should never pop out of the priming station. You need to read the manual and verify all setup. If setup is correct you need to call Dillon and find out what the problem is. I have only put about 10k thru mine and NEVER had a case jump out of the machine. When a machine starts to behave poorly YOU must stop and find the problem before bad things happen. If the brass popped out the machine likely jerked and you had primers lodged in the works that were set off by forcing the machine.

[Sig shooter]

thanks guys, to answer some of your questions. i cannot post pics, loading about maybe 10 rounds per minute, thank god i did not get hurt , i am 98% sure it was operator error.

after reading some of your posts i sat down at the bench and looked over the 650, here is what's toast, slide follower, switch lever, primer disc does not look to good but might be ok, primer magazine, one ceiling tile.

now, the machine started not moving as smoothly as it did the first 200 rounds i ran, in fact i recall one or two empty cases popping out of the priming station and being tossed across the bench ( should have stopped loading right there) it was only about 5 or 6 more loads after that when the boom happened.

i had loaded about 200 rounds with federal primers. the boom happened with winchester primers. does the age of a primer make a difference? the federal primers are new from the gun shop the winchester primers were given to me by a friend who had them in his basement for an unknown amount of time.

again, i would to thank all of you for your help. i started to enjoy reloading and went nuts buying all kinds of reloading gear but, if it happens again my fault or not the 650 will gone from here.

I put mine away for a while , but like every machine - knowing what to watch is key . As for the old prime system on a LNL , it is safer . Comparing an LNL to a 650 would be like truck and a corvette , while the LNL is safer the 650 is fast an a bit more dangerous , its your call .... Yes I have both .

Getting the alignment and the finger tension / clearance right at the prime station is important . I doubt the brand of primer matters much , as I used federal SP . Ask for that alignment pin from Dillon .

[targetshootr]

If the primer seater punch isn't lined up with the case, the primer can get pinched between them. I havent had one go off but I have ruined my share of primers.

[compass will]

I thought that as you pressed a primer into the case, you were also seating the anvil which makes the primer active. before being installed, the primer could not be set off by impact (well a large impact could seat the anvil and allow it to fire, or it could be set off by spark of static or flash from another primer going off).

If I am correct, this would account to why primers don't go off when crushed as they are attempted to be installed sideways.