NOE 360477 in the .357Mag?....

[waco]

Not looking for full Mag. loads, but what could I get away with using Unique and Redot?
I'm pretty much out of 2400 and 296, but have lots of redot and unique on hand.
I guess I'm looking for hot .38 loads in Mag. brass.
6.0 grains of unique should be a safe bet if 5 is ok in .38 brass, right?
Redot I'm not sure about. 5 grains in a Mag case maybe?
What do you guys think is safe/accurate?
Thanks again as always fellas!

[codgerville@zianet.com]

Not looking for full Mag. loads, but what could I get away with using Unique and Redot?
I'm pretty much out of 2400 and 296, but have lots of redot and unique on hand.
I guess I'm looking for hot .38 loads in Mag. brass.
6.0 grains of unique should be a safe bet if 5 is ok in .38 brass, right?
Redot I'm not sure about. 5 grains in a Mag case maybe?
What do you guys think is safe/accurate?
Thanks again as always fellas!

Never have used Red Dot in 357, but have used lots of Unique. I like it.

[Ed_Shot]

In a .357 case using 140 - 160 gr. boolits it's hard to beat Red Dot or Promo 5.0 gr. for an accurate mid range load.
Using Lyman 358477 I get 1060 fps in my 6" Ruger SS and 1190 fps in my Marlin. Great accuracy with mild recoil. The same load is outstanding with Lyman 358495, 358156 and 358311.

[paul h]

From Alliants website:

Pistols and Revolvers
357 Magnum
•158 gr Speer LSWC

Minimum OAL
(inches) Bbl Length Primer Powder Charge Weight
(grains) Velocity
(fps) Print
1.57 6 CCI 500 Bullseye 4.8 939 View this recipe
1.57 6 CCI 500 Unique 6 1,034 View this recipe

Yes, the 357 is a larger case and opperates at higher pressures, but I'd look for accuracy more than anything. You should be able to get an accurate load in the 900-1000 fps range with either powder. Red dot is pretty close to bullseye in speed.

Here is their 38 sp data for reference

Pistols and Revolvers
38 Special +P
•158 gr Speer LSWC

Minimum OAL
(inches) Bbl Length Primer Powder Charge Weight
(grains) Velocity
(fps) Print
1.44 6 CCI 500 Bullseye 3.9 874 View this recipe
1.44 6 CCI 500 Red Dot 3.8 846 View this recipe
1.44 6 CCI 500 Unique 5.2 919 View this recipe


I think the speer bullet is relatively soft, so you might be able to load slightly higer, but fast powders build pressure really fast. I think 5 gr of red dot or 6 gr of unique should be in the ballpark. I believe my Speer book shows a max charge of 6.5 gr of unique under a 158 gr cast, but that's off the top of my head (Dange Will Robinson)

For information only, I did load some Mihec 360640's under 7 gr of unique in my blackhawk which is a strong 357 and has digested heavy loads of 2400 and H-110. The 7gr of unique was quite snappy and I won't load that hot again. My chrony is out of action so I don't know how fast they are going. Unique is more of a mid-range handgun powder in terms of burning speed, I won't push loads with the fast fuels such as bullseye or red dot.

[waco]

Good to know. Thanks for the info guys.
Waco

[ddixie884]

My Lyman 45th edition, which was my first loading book says;

150gr 358430 Unique 4.0gr @ 690fps to 8.0gr @ 1280fps
158gr 358156gc Unique 4.0gr @ 680fps to 8.0gr @ 1250fps
168gr 358429 Unique 4.0gr @ 739fps to 7.0gr @ 1157fps

This book is copyrighted 1970. New cleaner Alliant Unique may be just a hair faster than old Hercules Unique. In posts by bmcgilvray on this Forum 5.2gr of new Alliant Unique seemed to give approximately the same results as 5.4gr of older Hercules Unique in .38spl +P loads.

This is old data with bullets cast of #2 alloy. The firearm used was S&W M27 5in barrel. Since this is old data I can only recommend you use it as input from the past and make your own decisions on its use. Lyman were the cast bullet people back then.

[Beagle333]

My chrony said I was getting 1008fps from a 162gr GC boolit this weekend using 6.5gr Unique. I normally use 6.0 but I was testing my powdercoating in a 6" Ruger GP-100.

[PWS]

FWIW, I've been playing with this bullet recently but with Hodgdon's Universal. No matter what the combo of size, hardness, or lube, accuracy was dismal until I got up to 6.0gr. Once there, it'll print 2" groups at 33 yards all day long from my wife's 4" SP101.

This is with bullets that are 8Bhn, sized 0.359" in Star sizer, White Label C-Red lube, 1.600" OAL, and velocity is ~1025fps.

[waco]

I have universal on hand. I'll try that one too.

[K-Rod]

3.0grs of RD for 38's. 8 3/8ths model 14 about 825fps.

4.5grs of RD for 357m. 6.5" BH about 1100fps.

I don't use unique.

[PWS]

This doesn't help with the original question regarding Red Dot and Unique but I shot some really nice groups with this bullet yesterday with 9.0 grains of Blue Dot (8bhn, 0.358", White Labe C-Red, PMC cases, Fed100 primers, 1.600" oal, ~1100fps).

Haven't had very good luck with lighter loads but this NOE358477 seems to run well with mid level loads.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 6.5 gr Alliant Unique under my 150 gr Lyman 358477s in magnum cases with WSP primers. It pressure tests at 28,400 psi in my Contender test barrel using the Oehler M43. That is well below the SAAMI MAP. The ES and SDs are also excellent. Runs 1175 fps out of the Ruger. It is very accurate in the Contender and also my Ruger Security Six with 6" barrel and my 2 1'2" M19 S&W.

Larry Gibson

[Salmoneye]

Been using 5gr Red Dot under 158gr cast in a mag case for years...

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Alliant05.pdf

Page 42 should be of interest...

[ddixie884]

Jeff Cooper loaded 5gr Red Dot under 160gr swc in .38spl for his wife's M-60 S&W 2". But that was a long time ago. He reported a velocity of over 1,000fps. Mr. Cooper said it was a very early M-60 and he thought the alloy was tougher on those early stainless guns. He also said this was not a practice load...........

[Low Budget Shooter]

5.0 grains Red Dot in 357 Magnum brass under boolits of 140-160 grains has worked great for me, after reading it in a Skelton article, if I recall correctly.