9mm / 38-357 bullet mold and profile questions from a casting noob

[nitroviking]

Hello all,

I'm hoping for some help choosing a bullet mold for casting 9mm and 38 - 357 from you more experienced guys out there.

From what I've read it looks like I may be able to get one mold that will serve double duty...

If I go with Lee 6 CAV 358-125 RF mold I may be able to use the bullets for both the 9mm and the 38-357,?

My big question is with seating depth in relation to the profile of the bullet from that particular mold and the location of the crimp groove and how it may affect the slight taper crimp (lee FCD) on the 9mm as the 9mm headspaces off the case mouth,

I'm not as worried about using them in the 38 since that gets the roll crimp and I'm assuming the crimp groove is in an appropriate location for that ?

Is that crimp groove going to give me issues when trying to seat to correct OAL and use a slight taper crimp for 9 mm instead of the roll crimp used on 38?

My reloading manual states 1.125 OAL for a 9mm 125gn lead bullet using 3.6 to 4.0 grains of Titegroup but until I cast some bullets and start to put them together, I don't know if that's going to allow the crimp groove to enter the case far enough to work....

( I have a lot of Titegroup so I'd really like to use that powder instead of letting it sit and have to buy a different powder)

Or is this not even an acceptable profile bullet with that crimp groove to use for 9mm with taper crimp?

If that bullet wont work for 9mm I think I could use the 6 CAV 356-120-TC ? but none of my 3 reloading manuals (Lee 2nd Ed., Hornady 9th Ed, Speer number 12) have any load data for 120gn lead, let alone with Titegroup...

Also, most people are saying they get bad accuracy with cast boolits in a 9mm at .356 and do much better at .357 or even . 358, and I'm not sure if the .356 mold will throw big enough slugs to shoot accurately at lower cast velocities?

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to supply as much info as possible and assure you guys that I've done some homework before I just jumped on here and yelled "Help" , thanks in advance to anyone that can offer any advice, it will all be well received...

[Jal5]

I use the Lee 125 gr boolit for 9mm a lot and will be trying it for 38spl soon. It is great for the 9mm. you may need to experiment with diameter according to your gun's bore. I resize mine for .357 for the 9mm anything less and I get leading in the barrel, pita but it does clean up with elbow grease.

[Grmps]

nitroviking Welcome to CB and the addiction



Lee 6 CAVITY 356-125 2R is good for 9MM and light 38
Lee MOLD 6 CAV TL452-230-2R is easiest to load for 45 if you want heavier boolits
You'll find lots of free online load data here.

9mm has a tapered case peoples problems are from crimping too hard and shrinking the diameter of the boolit. I crimp just hard enough to hold the boolit in the case where it doesn't move when puched againt my reloading bench.
Pull the first couple boolits yo load to make sure your not sizing them down

9mm Luger 125 125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Titegroup 4.0 1096 1.000 Hodgdon Web - Pistol dat

HF is low quality pc save yourself some headaches and order some powder and BB's from Smoke4320 a vender sponser on this site. you can get a 3 color trail pack of powder that works great for Dt 1 LB Shipped is $18.90, get some BB's from him also.

[nitroviking]

Thanks for the reply Jal5,

Im not worried about the diameter so much, because like I said, Ill buy whatever sizer I need that works well for the 9mm, and Ive read exactly what you said about .357 being the sweet spot for most 9mm boolits, (I will slug the bbl before buying a sizer though) Are you running the same profile boolit from that Lee 358-125 RF with the crimp groove? if so does the groove give you any issues?

[nitroviking]

Thanks for the great info Grmps ,

I am very careful to not over crimp the 9mm, I only use the LEE FCD as a extra safeguard, its set to just kiss the case and make sure there is no bell left from the flaring / powder thru die, I mic the cartridge at the mouth before and after the FCD, I usually am about .378 before the crimp and .377 after, so just .001 touch up.

I did have an issue in the past with multiple brands of once fired 9mm brass not having enough neck tension after resizing and the bullets would push into the case to easy no matter how I adjusted the sizing die and or crimp die.

Even tried different dies and using less, more and no crimp... Had this problem on 9mm only, I did some research and found a lot of people having the same issue... wound up buying an undersized Lee "U" die for 9mm and all my problems disappeared !!

The consensus seemed to be that most of the newer 9mm brass is very thin walled and doesn't seem to hold the bullet to well... but I don't know, I mic'd the walls of various brands and is was a little on the thin side I guess, around .009 to .011...

I don't plan to start out using the U die for cast boolits, as they should be bigger (.357 to .358) compared to the FMJs I was buying (.355), and I know I have to be more careful with cast boolits so I don't shave them or swage them down.

And thanks for the tip on HF, I will definitely check out Smoke4320's stuff !!!

[nitroviking]

And you aint kidding about addiction Grmps !!! Heres an example of my spiral into handloading addiction....

"All I need is a single stage press, a die set, scale and a manual and Im all good"


Went from this To This in 2 years ! LOL

[sawinredneck]

I use this mold for .38/357 and 9mm https://leeprecision.com/6-cavity-356-125-2r.html
It drops around .357 with my lead and after PC it’s .357-.359”. For 9mm I’ll size .356”, PC then size at .356” again. I’ve not found any of the 9mms I’ve loaded for (friends guns) that will chamber with .358” sized boolits.
For .38/.357 I don’t size, PC then size to .358” and load them.
I went with this particular mold because research showed it regularly dropped larger boolits than listed making it ideal for my needs. The mold you are looking at my do the same, I’m not sure.

[nitroviking]

Thanks sawinredneck, helpful info right there.... The 357 Ill be using is a Ruger GP100, Im assuming it will like about a .358, but we'll see,

Do you have any leading or accuracy issues with the boolits that wind up at .357 after PC in your .38/.357 or do you just separate those for use in the 9mm and use the ones that have come out at .358 - .359 then size to .358 for the .38 / .357?

[6bg6ga]

I don't use LEE. I have Magma and Ballisti-cast bullet molds for my Mark IV bullet caster. I cast 125gr rn and 160gr rn for use in both the 9mm and the 38/357's. I size my bullets to .357 for use in my 9mm and .358 for use in my 38/357's. thru my Star sizer.

[daloper]

Welcome to the madness. I will second Grmps on the pc. Save yourself the trouble and start out with Smoke's powder. If you are going to use one mold for both you can pc in two different colors and size one color at the .356 for your 9mm and the other color at the .358 for your .38 loads. Of course it won't be long before you fall completely down this rabbit hole and and end up with many different molds.

[6bg6ga]

Welcome to the madness. I will second Grmps on the pc. Save yourself the trouble and start out with Smoke's powder. If you are going to use one mold for both you can pc in two different colors and size one color at the .356 for your 9mm and the other color at the .358 for your .38 loads. Of course it won't be long before you fall completely down this rabbit hole and and end up with many different molds.

I would highly recommend a .357 for 9mm. Most 9mm's i've owned needed .357 in order to end leading. Using .356 in most will have you leading your barrel and cussing up a storm. Actually a person could probably simply size everything to .358 and be done with it. That extra two thousanths isn't going to hurt a thing. Proper fit is key to not leading a 9mm and also lower the bullet velocity. Proper fit and speed will result in shooting without leading.

[sawinredneck]

Thanks sawinredneck, helpful info right there.... The 357 Ill be using is a Ruger GP100, Im assuming it will like about a .358, but we'll see,

Do you have any leading or accuracy issues with the boolits that wind up at .357 after PC in your .38/.357 or do you just separate those for use in the 9mm and use the ones that have come out at .358 - .359 then size to .358 for the .38 / .357?

I honestly haven’t shot enough to say either way, I don’t get to shoot as often as I’d like so I’m still in load development right now.

[nitroviking]

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone !!

I would highly recommend a .357 for 9mm. Most 9mm's i've owned needed .357 in order to end leading. Using .356 in most will have you leading your barrel and cussing up a storm. Actually a person could probably simply size everything to .358 and be done with it. That extra two thousanths isn't going to hurt a thing. Proper fit is key to not leading a 9mm and also lower the bullet velocity. Proper fit and speed will result in shooting without leading.

Im not to worried about sizing, almost everyone I've seen casting for 9mm is agreeing on .357 being the sweet spot usually, and like I said I have no problem buying a couple sizers if need be, they are pretty cheap, I'm more concerned if that crimp groove on the .358-125-RF is going to cause an issue when seating to correct OAL and using a slight taper crimp on the 9mm as opposed to the roll crimp on a .38 - .357 it was designed for? I'm hoping to use a .358 mold and then PC (Im assuming about .359-.360 after PC?) and size back down to .358 for .38-.357 and be able to size down to .357 after PC for the 9mm

Im concerned a .356-125 mold might only give me .357 after PC and I may not be able to hit .358 for use in the .38-.357, also if I get a .356 mold for 9mm, I dont know if it will have a crimp groove at all, so would it even be able to be roll crimped for the .38-.357 ?

[jcren]

Don't have a 9, but use several 45 colt bullets in my acp and the crimp groove is never an issue. Must of the time I seat just past the groove, one profile I just taper crimp in the groove just enough to catch and prevent set back. Either way works.

[6bg6ga]

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone !!



Im not to worried about sizing, almost everyone I've seen casting for 9mm is agreeing on .357 being the sweet spot usually, and like I said I have no problem buying a couple sizers if need be, they are pretty cheap, I'm more concerned if that crimp groove on the .358-125-RF is going to cause an issue when seating to correct OAL and using a slight taper crimp on the 9mm as opposed to the roll crimp on a .38 - .357 it was designed for? I'm hoping to use a .358 mold and then PC (Im assuming about .359-.360 after PC?) and size back down to .358 for .38-.357 and be able to size down to .357 after PC for the 9mm

Im concerned a .356-125 mold might only give me .357 after PC and I may not be able to hit .358 for use in the .38-.357, also if I get a .356 mold for 9mm, I dont know if it will have a crimp groove at all, so would it even be able to be roll crimped for the .38-.357 ?

I would not be purchasing a .356 mold for 9mm but rather a 38/357 mold tht will give you .358 that can be sized for .358 for the 38/357 or sized to .357 for 9mm. Crimping.... not a problem. A slight taper crimp just enough to insure the bullet won't move for the 9mm and the same taper crimp for 38/357. You can probably cheat and just use the 9mm taper crimp die to also crimp the 38.357 jut back it off a little.

[6bg6ga]

just to let you know I may make a batch of say 5K of each bullet and then simply put in my .357 die and size a bunch and put them in a coffee can marked 9mm and then change the die and take some of the 5K batch and size them to .358 for the 38/357 and throw them in coffee cans marked 38/357.

[asmith80]

I've done what your trying to do and it's not as hard as you may think. If you're PC'ing, you may be able to get a little extra fat on those boolits to bump them up to .357 if they drop less than that. You could always do 2 coats of PC if you really need to.

I tried using the Lee molds to get one bullet for two calibers, and while I was able to get it to work, I realized it was way easier to just get a mold from NOE or Accurate in a design that worked for both calibers in a size that dropped from the mold with the biggest diameter I needed. Saved me a ton of hassle.

Rather than start with the 6 cav. mold, why not try a 2 cavity in one of the designs you're looking at? THat way you could test it out and see how hard it would be to get to work, and then decide if you wanted to stick with the Lee molds or get something else

[Ed_Shot]

I find the Lee 356-125-2R is outstanding in 9MM, 38 Spl and .357 Mag. I recently got the Arsenal Molds clone (358-125-2R) just to have a really quality mold. It's a tad heavier than the Lee and drops at .360. I get best accuracy, IMHO, using the the older Lyman 358242 (120 gr) mine drops at .362 and does have some deformation when sized .358 but it is a tack driver. The NOE 359242 (120 gr) which drops at .360 is no less accurate. I only lube the bottom grove on the 358242 for 9MM/38/357 and use the top lube grove as a crimp grove in 38/357. I load for a Blackhawk, Security Six and a GP100, the 358242 over Red Dot/Promo 4.2 gr in a 38 Spl case is a one-hole wonder.

My 2 cents: size your 9MM to .358.

[sawinredneck]

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone !!



Im not to worried about sizing, almost everyone I've seen casting for 9mm is agreeing on .357 being the sweet spot usually, and like I said I have no problem buying a couple sizers if need be, they are pretty cheap, I'm more concerned if that crimp groove on the .358-125-RF is going to cause an issue when seating to correct OAL and using a slight taper crimp on the 9mm as opposed to the roll crimp on a .38 - .357 it was designed for? I'm hoping to use a .358 mold and then PC (Im assuming about .359-.360 after PC?) and size back down to .358 for .38-.357 and be able to size down to .357 after PC for the 9mm

Im concerned a .356-125 mold might only give me .357 after PC and I may not be able to hit .358 for use in the .38-.357, also if I get a .356 mold for 9mm, I dont know if it will have a crimp groove at all, so would it even be able to be roll crimped for the .38-.357 ?

A couple of things, on the slight chance they don’t get large enough all you need to do is put on another coat of powder to make them larger.
I’ll also suggest sizing the 9mm boolits to your finish size before and after PC’ing them. I’ve found trying to size too much at one time is a very hard endeavor!
You are worrying too much about the crimp groove! It will only really matter on the 9mm loads as they are very pressure sensitive. In the .38/.357 loads this boolit is so short you’d have to all but stuff the shell full of powder to create a pressure problem. Also, since you are only going for low power loads I don’t foresee a problem with recoil setback like you could have with full house loads.

[nitroviking]

I would not be purchasing a .356 mold for 9mm but rather a 38/357 mold tht will give you .358 that can be sized for .358 for the 38/357 or sized to .357 for 9mm. Crimping.... not a problem. A slight taper crimp just enough to insure the bullet won't move for the 9mm and the same taper crimp for 38/357. You can probably cheat and just use the 9mm taper crimp die to also crimp the 38.357 jut back it off a little.

6bg6ga, Sounds good, that's what I was hoping, I think I'll give the 6 cavity 358-125-RF a try then, you said your using "160gr rn for use in both the 9mm and the 38/357's" too? Where do you find load data for a cast 160gn bullet in a 9mm !? Ive looked in 4 reloading manuals and Hodgdons website and dont see anything over 147 gn listed.... except LEEs 2nd edition manual has a mere 4 listings all using Vihtavuori for a 150gn but its a jacketed bullet.