1st Attempt at Powder Coating

[shafer44]

Well, I have been having problems with leading in my 45-70 and have cast larger boolits, changed lube, changed powder loads and my groups have definitely gotten better, but I have to clean my barrel every 2 or 3 shots. If I don't clean, my groups become a shotgun pattern. Last night, I watched a couple of videos on dry powder coating and thought, why not. I am first trying HF red, many have said it is junk, some have said it was ok, but for $6 who cares. I have wasted more on stuff before. I went to HF and got a jug of it and came home. I also stopped by Wallyworld and got some airsoft BB's. They did not have the black as most recommended, and the smallest bottle was green. I did not want to buy 6000+ in white and black. I took my old toaster oven out in the garage and turned it on to preheat. I came back inside and found a little plastic container with a lid. I dumped some BB's in to cover the bottom, as instructed, dropped 20 boolits to start with and dumped some PC paint in with them. I closed the lid and shook it up and down and swirled it around and when I opened it up, most were covered pretty good, but there was missed spots. I tried first with long tweezers to pick up the boolits and stand them on a metal plate and i kept dropping them and scratching the PC off. Then I tried nitrile gloves with PC on the finger tips, and that did not work as well as the video I watched either. I then placed them in the oven and waited 20 min. The boolits looked pretty good, except missing spots. I let them cool and then did them again. This time they looked better, but not for the purist type guys. The next batch, I tried to dump the bullets on a 1/4" squares hardware cloth, but the bb's would not go thru, so I had to pick all of them out. Then I put the bullets in the oven and they did pretty well again, but I had to redo them again. I am in West Texas and today was over 100 deg. and very little humidity. Maybe the better PC paints will work better. If I get the HF to work for me, then the better stuff may be even better. Don't critique me too harshly.

[shafer44]

Oh, and I knew the diameter would increase, but it was a little more that I thought. Out of the mold, they drop at .4605, with PC, they were .4644. I ran them thru my rcbs sizer die and now they are .4595. Weird, since my sizing die is .459. Oh, well, I have a .461 sizing die on order anyway, my barrel slugs .4585

[MyFlatline]

A good learning day, I would say. Florida humidity stays high. HF red is the only one I can get to tumble and stick. Yes some of the other powders do better. As far as the bullets growing...I'm a tad anal, I size before and after. Have had great results (for me) so far..

Keep in mind, the bullets need to be clean for the coating to stick properly...Good job.

[shafer44]

Another question. I could not find a cool whip/butter bowl, so I used a square tupperware type container. Would I get better static for the paint to stick if I was using a round container?

[shafer44]

Thank you MyFlatline! Practice makes perfect.......I hope. I did about 100+ boolits. Hopefully, even though they aren't the prettiest, maybe they will stop my leading issue and my groups stay together.

[MyFlatline]

I have never had leading with PC..You will get it down..Watch to toaster oven temperature, they tend to be under. If you go to size and the PC cracks, start over. They did not cure correctly... I found that out a few years ago the hard way. I now have a small wall oven that I got from a thrift store....

[shafer44]

I have not had any cracking, the only PC that has come off was when I was sizing and I did not have the boolit lined up correctly, so it peeled a little off the nose a couple of times. Seems like the oven temp is ok, so far. Should I leave them standing until they are cool enough to hold in your hand or what?

[OS OK]

If you pull the tray and set it on the concrete or...I set mine on the table saw steel top, they will cool to handle in less than 5 minutes.
I kinda get in a hurry to size them or stack another bunch to cook.
I found large, prolly 10" clear no.5 bowls at K-Mart that women use for putting leftovers in the fridge. These bowls have wide radiuses and I think add more static charge as you swirl them...the lids snap on and do not come loose.
Just one table spoon of quality powder goes a looong ways.
I pour the entire bowl out on a cookie sheet and give the sheet a couple quick movements front to rear...all the casts will roll out parallel to each other and re-coat themselves where they had nicks from bumping...makes the job of grabbing and stacking go real fast.

[jcren]

Square will work fine, round seems to coat smoother, but I use both with no problem. Check out Smoke4320 in the vendor sponsor list for very high quality powders and a few bb's or his beginner kit. Believe me, the coverage difference with his powders is unbelievable. The bb's just need to be the heavy opaque colors, the shiny translucent colors are usually acrylic and don't work well. Smoke even has a 4 color sample pak that will coat several thousand bullets. Try the clear and gloss black for easy results but any of his powders (except flat black) work exceptionally well.

[shafer44]

Yeah, I figure I will get decent with the HF, then I will splurge and get the higher dollar PC. If Smoke's works so much better, it will probably make it seem effortless. The HF, I have had to do them twice to get the best coverage. I bet the gloss black really covers good. I don't really care that much about color, just coverage and eliminating leading in my 45-70 barrel. I have really had trouble with the different lubes in my lubricator. I like the fact that after PC, when i run the boolits thru the sizing die, NOTHING comes off, except for the nose that I missaligned the top punch on. I am just trying now to find a way to make the electrostatic better or higher, so I get a better bullet with 1 coat. There ought to be something besides the plastic bowls and the airsoft bb's.

[OS OK]

Attachment 197595

There ought to be something besides the plastic bowls and the airsoft bb's.

I know, it's tough...follow the usual quick methods suggested and this is all you get!
Must be a better way huh?

[shafer44]

well, yesterday i did my first PC boolits and had to do them twice to get good coverage. I live in west Texas and normally, we have less than 30% humidity. It was 40-50 yesterday and when I tried again last night, I could not even get the PC to stick to the boolits.....humidity at that time was 70% as it had rained a bit late afternoon. Well, today, it is back up to 105 and humidity is 27% and the boolits covered nicely in one coat. As I was trying to state previously, I am very analytical and a retired engineer, so I like to figure out how to make things work, that don't. I read another post and the guy put styrofoam in his shaker bowl. Now that is thinking!! I did not think of it, but ever notice when you get something in packing peanuts, they stick to you and everything else!! I am going to put some peanuts in with my next batch and see what happens. They are covering good now, so I think I will wait until the next thunderstorm comes thru and when the humidity is high, try then. There ought to be something besides the plastic bowls and the airsoft bb's.

[jcren]

No offense intended, but you are trying to reinvent the wheel there. Guys here have tried many methods and materials including packing peanuts. Harbor Freight powder is a different base polymer that takes more static to stick and is more sensitive to humidity. The poly bb's also generate more charge than the acrylic. Using Smokes powders, Powder By the Pounds polyester based powders, and the heavy black or white bb's, I have had no problem coating in south-central oklahoma 80% + humidity. Even coated under the carport during a rain storm.

[shafer44]

no offense taken, but as i said, if I can get HF to work, then the good stuff should be really easy. I am retired anyway, so what's a little time?? Even if I have to coat them twice, it doesn't take that long to do, just shake and bake. The most tedious thing with this PC'ing is standing up the boolits. I meant to go shoot some of the PC'd 45-70 boolits today.....oh well, tomorrow. I wish i could go out back and shoot, but i live in town, so it is 38 miles round trip to go shoot at our club.

[OS OK]

well, yesterday i did my first PC boolits and had to do them twice to get good coverage. I live in west Texas and normally, we have less than 30% humidity. It was 40-50 yesterday and when I tried again last night, I could not even get the PC to stick to the boolits.....humidity at that time was 70% as it had rained a bit late afternoon. Well, today, it is back up to 105 and humidity is 27% and the boolits covered nicely in one coat. As I was trying to state previously, I am very analytical and a retired engineer, so I like to figure out how to make things work, that don't. I read another post and the guy put styrofoam in his shaker bowl. Now that is thinking!! I did not think of it, but ever notice when you get something in packing peanuts, they stick to you and everything else!! I am going to put some peanuts in with my next batch and see what happens. They are covering good now, so I think I will wait until the next thunderstorm comes thru and when the humidity is high, try then. There ought to be something besides the plastic bowls and the airsoft bb's.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...lt-lt-lt-lt-lt

As an engineer you should realize the value of perusing the work of others.
Using the cheap Harbor Freight powder just handicaps your efforts.

[shafer44]

well, handicap, probably, but I also hate to wait, so what the heck, spend $6 to try a new method until some good stuff gets here....did not bother me. I read lots and lots of other posts and watched videos and saw people using HF and getting good results. If it doesn't bother me, i don't know why it would bother you. I thought this was a friendly forum, I don't need harsh demeaning posts. Constructive criticism is appreciated, other not so much.

[Grmps]

"There ought to be something besides the plastic bowls and the airsoft bb's."
We've used powder coat PC directly in a brass vibratory cleaner. we've put the bullets and PC in plastic bags or plastic containers in a brass vibratory cleaner. We've used PVC pipe to coat in. And probably many more ways I haven't heard of. The latest is putting styrofoam balls in with the BB's and bullets.This is still in infancy, the styrofam might replace needing #5 containers/BB's completely.
Whenever someone states they have the BEST way to do something a better way is usually discovered.
Most of us are always willing to learn something new/better. (Helps us think we're not getting older so fast)
Most high gloss polyester PC will do a good job DT PCing.

[shafer44]

I agree Grmps! I like hearing new ways of doing stuff and if it makes it easier or better, then I am going to try it. I did some boolits while ago and the styro peanuts "seemed" to help the HF red adhere. Again, like you say, it is not a proven fact or method yet, but it did seem to help where I was having coverage problems. I am anxious to get the better stuff that I ordered from Smoke. He says it is a finer granular powder and it sticks better than the HF. That makes sense, as smaller granules are lighter and it takes less electrostatic to make it grab onto the lead. Any way I look at this, the coating is on the bullets I have done, the hammering down of one from a 45acp boolit I did, ended up as large in diameter as a nickel and about 1/16" thick and it still had a ring of PC around the perimeter....nothing flaked or cracked off. So, even if they aren't "pretty", they will work. That is what I am after...working, non-leading boolits.

[OS OK]

well, handicap, probably, but I also hate to wait, so what the heck, spend $6 to try a new method until some good stuff gets here....did not bother me. I read lots and lots of other posts and watched videos and saw people using HF and getting good results. If it doesn't bother me, i don't know why it would bother you. I thought this was a friendly forum, I don't need harsh demeaning posts. Constructive criticism is appreciated, other not so much.

I get your drift...your going to do it your way regardless of what others might suggest...no, it does not bother me. I hate to witness wasted time, materials and effort but that's how some learn. And, your right...it's your time.
We've been through this many, many times before with 'newbies' @ PC'ing but they usually come around in the end. It always depends on what you will settle for and call good enough.
Have a good time at it...c h a r l i e

[shafer44]

Ok, today, I went to our range to shoot some of my PC'd 45-70 boolits. I loaded them the same as I have been before, including seating depth. Well, I put the first shell in from some regular lubed boolits, to take my fouling shot. Then I grabbed one of the PC'd boolits. It also had a different powder...Unique, this time and it shot fine, a few inches up from the first shot. I grabbed a second shell and it would not push into my chamber...lacked a few thousandths. I tried pushing and shoving but it would not go. I had 18 others loaded up and they ALL would not fit in the chamber, the falling block would catch and I could not get past them. Fortunately, I had some more normal lubed boolits and did some shooting. When I got home, I took these shells and marked the nose with a black magic marker and the noses were contacting just a few thousandths too soon. I did use HF and had to do them twice, I mic'd them before resizing and they were .4645, dropped out of the mold at .4615, so I had a .003 build up of PC. The sizing die takes care of this, but in order to get the shells to chamber, I had to change my seating depth to 2.546 instead of 2.550 like I had them. I don't know what I can do different, except maybe when my Smoke powder gets here, it will be a better coverage in one coat. With a bolt action rifle, I know I could have closed the bolt, but with a falling block, you have no leverage. A mistake, I will not make again....make sure they chamber before I drive 18 miles one way to the range.