Annealing

[michael.birdsley]

Tried searching for this topic in the search feature. Is it possible to annel brass with out the machine, or making a machine. I might only have about 150 .30-.30 cases and 45 7.62x54r cases. The wife would flip if I bought a machine for that.

Edit: I found this from JPrifles.com

A" better solution was to use of a variable speed drill. You'd spin a long socket wrench suitable to hold the case while applying the torch. Once it reached the appropriate temperature, you'd quench it in water. This method gave much better coverage but at the price of speed."

Anybody ever do it this way? Pros and cons of it.


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[JimB..]

There are also folks that stand the cases up in water, use a torch to heat them one at a time and then just tip them over to cool.

[BK7saum]

I have annealed a lot of cases thus way using a pencil torch and socket in a drill or cordless screwdriver. I did not use tempilaq but watched for the slight color change of clean brass to a light bluish tint. Avoid cherry red as you have already overannealed and burnt some zinc out of the brass. I kept the point of flame on the shoulder and it worked fine for me. I also annealed in a darkened room to avoid the cherry red. After doing a few I figured out a count and did not need to visually observe a color change.

[michael.birdsley]

There are also folks that stand the cases up in water, use a torch to heat them one at a time and then just tip them over to cool.

Obviously move the torch around the brass while it is in water?


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[michael.birdsley]

If it is over anneled. It would probably split around the neck during the sizing operation?


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[michael.birdsley]

I have annealed a lot of cases thus way using a pencil torch and socket in a drill or cordless screwdriver. I did not use tempilaq but watched for the slight color change of clean brass to a light bluish tint. Avoid cherry red as you have already overannealed and burnt some zinc out of the brass. I kept the point of flame on the shoulder and it worked fine for me. I also annealed in a darkened room to avoid the cherry red. After doing a few I figured out a count and did not need to visually observe a color change.

Might be something good to do at night than.


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[Patrick56]

If the case is too hot it will melt. Annealing makes the neck soft again so it won´t split. Easiest way to do it is to place the cases without primers standing in water so the neck is above the water level. Start from one side with a propane torch or similar and heat the neck until it is red and tip it over in the water and move to next. Pros try to heat many at the same time. After the process the neck should have a slight blue color.

[dragon813gt]

If the case is too hot it will melt. Annealing makes the neck soft again so it won´t split. Easiest way to do it is to place the cases without primers standing in water so the neck is above the water level. Start from one side with a propane torch or similar and heat the neck until it is red and tip it over in the water and move to next. Pros try to heat many at the same time. After the process the neck should have a slight blue color.

If it made it to red you went to far and over heated the case. Annealing is based on time and temperature yet people seem to ignore this fact. W/out something like Tempilaq you are just guessing.

I used to use the method the OP described. It works and is one of the better non-machine methods. The issue I had was inconsistent results. Each case was annealed slightly differently leading to different neck tensions. It's better than nothing but using a machine yields consistent results.

[jmorris]

I you over anneal it it likely won't split anywhere, also won't have much neck tension.

it can be done manually, lots of folks do and have done it using many different methods. Any "glow" of any kind and you have gone too far. If you are using propane and the flame changes from blue to orange, you have also gone too far.

Before I built a machine I had more consistent results shooting the cases until they split vs annealing by hand. If accuracy is not what your after and just want better case life you will likely get that even from an over annealed case. Just be sure your bullets are not getting set back (like the remaining bullets in your 30-30 when one of fired.

[Bent Ramrod]

Heating brass to any stage of "glow," in any light, results in a condition of "dead anneal," as soft as the brass will get. In eighth-grade Shop class, we had to get our brass ash trays to this state so we could beat them a little closer to their final shape. Then it was back to the furnace. The brass, at any stage of the shaping, work-hardened pretty quickly under the hammering, and would crack unless the annealing was done thoroughly and often.

Brass cases aren't subjected to nearly the work hardening that the ashtrays were, but eventually the resizing and dragging over the expander will harden the case mouths. A dead anneal here will reduce the risk of cracking to zero, but will cause the shoulders of bottleneck cases to collapse in the resizing die, and may cause unevenness in the case mouths after resizing. You simply don't need this much annealing for a case, unless maybe it is the crummiest of Bertram brass or the most violently reformed makeshift stuff, and you are desperate.

I use a cake pan of water that floats on the surface of a slightly larger cake pan of water. Before adding water to the upper pan, I spin it around with a Magic Marker held against the middle of the bottom, to mark where the center is. I then fill the upper pan with water, deep enough so the case is under water lying on its side. I have a good light shining on the setup so I can see colors.

I light the Bernz-O-Matic, adjust the flame so the cone is about 5/8" long, put a case in the center of the pan, spin the upper pan in the lower pan with my right index finger while holding the torch in my left hand so the cone of the flame is just off the case about 3/8" down from the mouth. When the bluish color comes down past the cone, I knock the case over with the torch, fish it out with my right hand, toss the case into a box, put a new one in the center and repeat. The blue color is evenly achieved around the case mouth, and seems to be enough anneal to'prevent cracking while leaving enough hardness in the mouth to hold up to resizing and expanding.

I did about 300 .45-70 cases and 50 .45-2.6" cases, spinning the cases for a count of 13. About 90 .25-20 SS cases were done for a count of 8. Once my right forefinger is wet, I can spin the upper pan about 78 RPM (guesstimate) and remove and replace cases without stopping the spinning pan. Took maybe 2-1/2 hours one afternoon (with breaks) and an hour the next afternoon.

The two pans came from the Salvation Army store. Since the case heads can't get any hotter than warm water, they are safe from the effects of the heat. It takes a little practice and skill, but then it goes pretty fast, and is the most inexpensive way to do a reasonable number of cases I've found.

[gnoahhh]

I merely use the candle method- rotate in a candle flame until body of the case is too hot to hold, then wipe with a wet paper towel. Done, and no risk of overheating and no having to dry out the insides of the cases. This method is gaining a lot of favor among handloaders. Best of all it's about the cheapest method out there. No need to over-think this, IMO.

[Gillie Dog]

Ever thought about just sending the brass to one of the annealing services. With so few to do it will not cost much and they machine anneal it for you.

Just a thought.

GD

[Iron Whittler]

Maybe some one on the forum that has a machine will do it for you. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

[georgerkahn]

"Annealing" is not as simple a task as it sounds, inho! The temperature you bring your brass neck to, as well as time there, is critical. And, too, if the base of your cartridge gets annealed -- you may be in big trouble, as it will no longer be able to withstand pressures! There are many epistles on annealing on the Internet -- might I suggest you Google and read a few?
I have a Bernz-0-matic torch head for annealing purveyed by The Woodchuck's Den (http://www.woodchuckden.com/); the Hornady case-holder-for-a-drill gizmo; my own sockets with a nut 'n bolt through bottom for drill (like Hornady's) and one of Giraud's fantastic annealing machines (http://www.giraudtool.com/annealer1.htm).
WHAT DO THESE METHODS ALL SHARE IN COMMON??? The need to monitor the temperature/time of your case necks, as well as case bottom temps. There is a "paint" called Templaq (http://www.tempil.com/tempilaq-indicating-liquids/) which easily allows you to see when a desired temperature is reached. I use one for my case necks, and another for case base. I do not necessarily "paint" each and every case to be annealed -- after but two or three, you can judge your flame/speed/etc. to be pretty consistent. Several firms (Brownells, Midway USA, and even eBay sellers) list it.
For your safety -- all different equipments will anneal (or not) -- but this caster cannot stress enough the importance of using Temlaq or similar to monitor your annealing temperatures!
BEST!
geo

[country gent]

As has been stated annealing is a time and temp combination for a given material. Some die steels will draw back at 400* for 4-5 hours in the furnace. Brass can be annealed and is more stable afterwards also. There are many ways to anneal. the machines do a wonderful consistant job of it. Some use a lead pot with lead at a set temperature and time count. Dipping the case mouths into the lead to desired depth. (I have a small dipper pot with a rack and silica sand in it for annealing cases). the tourch candle method has been around and used for the longest time of all. Its fairly simple to do. set the tourch with a flame length of 3/4"-1" long and either in a case holder ( socket, piece of tubing or other holder) spin the case neck in the flame at the blue ppint of the inner flame till a light starw / blue color appears on the case and quench into a bucket of water. Also quench the holder to keep it cooled of as this maintains the case heads temp while heating. Over several cases it temp will rise otherwise. I like a power screwdriver for spinning cases and leave the tourch sit in a stand The water container sets on the right of the flame and the flame is about 5" above the container. I like a deeper container as the added fall makes sure the brass is cooled before it hits anything. With my lead pot set up I use a desk waste basket about 3/4 full of cold water. If you measure the sized case mouths on a few cases then on annealed you will see less spring back to the annealed cases.

[1066]

Using a socket on an electric screwdriver works quite well - it can be made even better with a little extra care with the timing and flame position - The are plenty of free "Metronome" timing apps for your smartphone that will pip every 7 seconds or what ever time you set. If you can fix some sort of jig so the flame is in a consistent place it helps. There's no need to quench in water, it serves no purpose other than getting the cases wet.

Pretty well any method works if the aim is to gain increased case life - If you are looking for extreme long range accuracy with consistent neck tension, then I think you need the consistency of a machine.

Here's a couple of my home made machines:

Mk 1 annealer

Mk 2

[michael.birdsley]

Thanks guys, I will look into all of the suggestions. The purpose of my anneling these cases is just to try and extend the brass life of my cases. The socket, pan, and maybe the candle I look farther into too.


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[Wayne Smith]

If you cast you can use your casting pot full of lead, especially if you are doing just a few. I get my pot to around 650, pick up a cartridge by it's base, and hold the neck in the lead until I can't hold the base any more, counting. Then I get a locking plier and hold the rest of the necks in for the same count. Never had a problem doing this and have been doing it for years.

[BK7saum]

If you cast you can use your casting pot full of lead, especially if you are doing just a few. I get my pot to around 650, pick up a cartridge by it's base, and hold the neck in the lead until I can't hold the base any more, counting. Then I get a locking plier and hold the rest of the necks in for the same count. Never had a problem doing this and have been doing it for years.

It has been recommended to leave the spent primer in place to keep lead out of the inside of the case. This is to prevent tinning or lead from soldering to the inside of the case neck. Do you leave the primers in the case?

[michael.birdsley]

It has been recommended to leave the spent primer in place to keep lead out of the inside of the case. This is to prevent tinning or lead from soldering to the inside of the case neck. Do you leave the primers in the case?

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