The trials and tribulations of being a Mod

[Omega]

Restricting a moderator from issuing infractions in a certain area of the forum is setting a dangerous precedent, and demonstrates a lack of respect for any moderator in that circumstance unless they have demonstrated extreme prejudice against a member. The moderators have been more than fair in any interaction I've ever seen in the forums.

No disrespect intended, it's not like it has been an issue that needs correction. But if a mod does not like an area, and will issue points just because it's an area they don't like, then maybe it's a good idea to let the other mods handle that area, not an official restriction really, just self restraint. That is why I have also said that if a mod has a vested interest in the discussion, then its best to let another mod handle the mod duties. Apparently the mod squad has already seen the value of that one as it seems that is their rule, written or unwritten. Just like if a mod was real religious, or an devout atheist, then maybe moderating the chapel would be best left to someone who could be impartial, to both sides. The only problem I see with that is that the PIT is probably in the high 90 percentiles of reported posts and there is more than enough so all mods have to take turns, in that case then it is the luck of the draw whether you get a warning, points or the hammer.

[Boaz]

Then....Lets just try to get along ? Live...let live ?

[paul h]

I swear some people are only happy if they have something to complain about.

And no, that's not aimed at the mods.

It's pretty simple, be civilized. I know I'm not the most civilized person but somehow I've managed to never be warned, censured or banned from a hunting/shooting/fishing forum in over 20 years and likely a dozen forums. I think the same holds for most members of most forums.

[shoot-n-lead]

Can't we all just get along...

[sparky45]

You do realize a sociopath coined that phrase, right?

[Battis]

Back to the moderator/cop analogy...
A cop driving down the street hears a loud stereo, loud party, etc. That cop cannot tell the people to turn down the music based on the concept of disturbing the peace because a cop's peace cannot be disturbed. But, if someone complains about the noise, the cop can act.
So...can a moderator step in to a thread and tell someone to "knock it off" and even impose penalties if no one has complained about a particular post?

[Boaz]

..............................................lol !!

[Blackwater]

This is one of the best forums I've found, which reflects on the Moderators. But, like it or not, a moderator does have "police" power - you can pull the plug on me right now, but I can't do it to you. If one out of 100 or 1000 moderators abuses their powers because of conflicting views just once, that backs up my point. It's the same with cops. For me or anyone to say that you should have stopped it sooner, or that you should have let it go longer, or you shouldn't have been involved, is wrong, but, as you probably know, it's to be expected with the job.
Contentious threads are like car wrecks - sometimes it's hard to turn away from them, even when you know you should. And no good usually comes from them. What was accomplished from that MJ thread? In regards to the original post - nothing.

Certainly good and valid points. I just quit worrying about being perfect some while ago, and now, just try to be as good and fair and valid as I know how to be. In the end, that's all any of us can do, which is why we mods don't jump at first impulse. We've never claimed to be perfect. So we just try to be as understanding as we know how to be, and as lenient as we feel we can. Life'll never be quite "right" to any of us. Why should anything in it, including this board, be any different? How can we imperfect humans ever make something that's "perfect?" If you find an answer to that one, we mods would love to know! Until then, we just amble along and do the best we know how to do. I just hope we don't ever make any grievous mistakes. So far, I haven't seen any. And sometimes, when we discuss things in the Staff area, things are revealed that not everyone may know about. So .... we just do what we can, and leave the rest to posterity. It's all we CAN do, really. But thanks for the thoughtful input. We're not unmindful that we're not perfect, and good, honest opinions are always welcome, even if they're not full of lauding and praise. We're VERY aware that we aren't perfect, and that some situations have no real good solution. It's like in golf. Sometimes we just have to swing and see if we can still hit the ball somewhere that's not too terribly deep in the rough. And if needs be, we can always go find it in the woods, take a drop, and try again. Not much we do here is very permanent. So we have that much solace when we think of the variables we may not know about. Thanks for all the understanding and support you all give, even the criticisms. It matters.

[shoot-n-lead]

You do realize a sociopath coined that phrase, right?

You do realize that was posted in jest...right?

runfiverun

it covers just being a general pain in the ***..

Yep.

[Blackwater]

And to the other questions presented, there's really no way to answer them, because just as Run5 said, each instance is treated as unique, and any obviously due considerations taken into the whole of the debate and decision as to what to do. So ... sorry, but there's really no way to accurately answer, because any answer we give would NOT necessarily apply to other "nominally similar" situations, for the simple reason that each situation has differing variables. I'd think that would be apparent, but maybe not always.

One source we have of complaints about what we do, is simply folks comparing one action to another, when the specifics involved in each were very different. This makes them not really equatable one with the other, but folks aren't always considerate of that factor. The hardes part about modding, really, is the whining. The TOS are about as clear as we can make them, and we STILL try to be tolerant, when we feel we can. It's the intolerance of others that seems to crystalize a great deal of the contentions that occur on any part of this board. But .... folks DO have bad days. I once got a PM warning. And I admitted I was wrong, because I was. Just basically having a bad day, really. And I apologized, and promised not to do that again. And I haven't. So it's not like being a mod gives one an armor to protect them. It's more like a job, and it tends to make us more circumspect ALMOST all the time. We all have our limits, and the whining really gets hard to take past a certain point. But it's so darn common these days, it just seems to go along with the job. But again, thanks to the vast bulk of you whose character and knowledge and senses of humor make this place what it is. To YOU goes all the credit, really. So thanks to each one of you. You really matter here.

[slownsteady22]

It's like going to a bar,if you want to start a fight or argument talk about religion politics or MJ. I'm here for the cast boolits and a little light reading.

Sent from my SM-G925R4 using Tapatalk

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Back to the moderator/cop analogy...
A cop driving down the street hears a loud stereo, loud party, etc. That cop cannot tell the people to turn down the music based on the concept of disturbing the peace because a cop's peace cannot be disturbed. But, if someone complains about the noise, the cop can act.
So...can a moderator step in to a thread and tell someone to "knock it off" and even impose penalties if no one has complained about a particular post?

Yes.

There are 500 to 1000 new posts each day. I don't read them all. I suspect the other Mods don't read them all. If I were a bettin' man, and I am, I'd bet the majority of infractions have been due to a 'report'. Sometimes a post is reported and no action is taken for days, the next time it happens within minutes, as Blackwater mentions, lots of variables.

FYI, IHMO your Cop/Loud noise anecdote is incorrect.

[Battis]

Why is it incorrect?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Why is it incorrect?

because a cop can tell the people to turn down the music based on the concept of disturbing the peace or public nuisance or another grey law.

[RogerDat]

Let me see if I have this correct....

The overpaid moderators are doing it all wrong.
There should be a different process in place for (your pet peeve here) because I think that it is wrong the way the overpaid & underworked moderators handle it. Why? Well because I would do it differently...

Well this is your lucky day! Go online to GoDaddy, and sign up for a host name and web space, then install PHP BB forum software, then sit there and play in your own little sandbox with all the most perfect rules. But I'll bet if you get two additional members they will complain to each other about how you run the site. If one of them is a graphic artist they will complain about how it looks in addition to how you run it. Web designer will ding you for missing features. But they will both agree you are arbitrary and unfair. Heck could be a Bernie and Trump supporter as your only members and they would still agree that you are wrong....

Then we have people leave because:
The moderators allow (my own personal bugaboo here) or won't allow (my own personal passion).

The Pit is a turn off and drives people to stop reloading, stop casting, dispose of all equipment, recycle their lead stash and beat their firearms into plowshares. Hard for the Glock owners but they do it through sheer persistence. Amuses the wheel gun folks a bunch to watch them do all that work for a plow point made of plastic.

I don't really think I have seen a moderator who took advantage of their authority to run rough shod over the other people posting. Even in the pit. I got dinged for a S&S posting that violated the rules. I looked at the rules more carefully, sent a PM to clarify why it was a violation. Thank you have a nice day. I can think of at least a mod or two that I recall being disagreed with and not coming down on the post or member. Might even have been me doing the disagreeing.

If we can't disagree without being disagreeable, rude, or vulgar we either lack the social skills for public interaction or maybe should appreciate someone telling us we are over the line. It is a given some folks are going to rant, some will have strong opinions that they won't change. But when folks won't even listen to each other or themselves it's time to take a break or at least a few deep breaths.

How hard is it really? Most of us do it on a fairly regular basis, or did when we worked. We made some effort to get along with people, not like us. Here is the kicker, these people we disagree with ARE like us. They cast, reload, shoot, repeat. Which only a small percentage of all gun owners do.

I don't smoke pot, I'm not planning on smoking pot, I think it should be regulated and legal. Saying you "Pot heads" to dismiss a point of view or argument I express ignores reality. Don't agree? Fine, just say so. Not going to agree, no matter what? Oh well, lead to water can't make em drink. Not willing to consider anyone else's points or perspective? Then why are you there in that thread? If all you want to do is tell people they are wrong write each member of Congress one at a time. Do that once a day it will keep you busy for a year.

The country is divided, the shooting community is a segment of that same divided perspective. And since this site is lucky enough to have international membership (how cool is that!) we are sure to have widely different ideas, world views or experiences.

If we could all moderate ourselves their wouldn't be anything for the highly paid professional moderator to do to make a living. Fortunately it doesn't look like their is much chance that is going to happen and the moderators can continue to make a good living and have indoor plumbing.

It ain't the herding that is so hard, it's that the cats don't always appreciate the hard work herding them can be that breaks a cat wranglers heart.



Much of that was tongue in cheek, especially anything that offended anyone, especially any Inuit members.

I am plus 1 on not counting the pit in post counts, nothing against the pit but participation there does not indicate being helpful or productive, so the post count from that showing in the profile misleads in terms of actual participation in technical aspects.

[Battis]

because a cop can tell the people to turn down the music based on the concept of disturbing the peace or public nuisance or another grey law.

Well, I'm going back to the academy I attended in 1987 and tell them they were wrong.
Google it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have no desire to google noise law.
I used IHMO...
and neither of us used the terms charged or ticketed...it was "a cop can tell the people to turn down the music"

[sparky45]

Of course I realize it was stated in jest, I looked at where you're located.

You do realize that was posted in jest...right?



Yep.

[bruce drake]

I offered to be an Moderator on a proposed Modern Sporting Rifle sub-forum a year or so back and in 2nd sight, I'm almost happy the Mods at the time chose not to expand the forum threads or put me to the wall on my offer and saddle me with job of volunteer moderator (none of our Mods get paid for any of the time they invest in ensuring our forums run cleanly and without major issues (you want issues, go log in and follow www.ar15.com for a while...and then return here and see which is better)).

Bruce

[Battis]

I have no desire to google noise law.

Then don't tell me I'm wrong.
A cop cannot tell someone to turn down loud music unless there's a complaint about that music. The cop's peace cannot be disturbed.
I used the analogy to see if a moderator can be "disturbed" or annoyed without a complaint from another member, or can they just pick and choose what posts should be flagged, censored, etc.

If I were a moderator, I'd tell me that the moderators on this forum do not abuse their power or discretion, and they're doing a good job, and I'd have to agree with myself.