Bucket list: one less .. shot a 5.45x18mm yesterday

[Expat74]

A friend of mine brought his commercial PSM to the range yesterday night and let me shoot a mag through it. Tiny round at 1.16 swiss francs a pop. Smallest Berdan case I've ever seen. The pic shows the case compared to 9mm Luger. Very very slim pistol, recoil is comparable to a .32 ACP, maybe a bit less.

[reed1911]

Count yourself one of the lucky. I've never fired an actual factory round, however the 5.7x28 sure makes it easy on me now to make my own cases. Trim, ream, pass through .300 drawing die, and load up. Bullets are simply drawn from conventional .22 cal bullets.

[Earlwb]

You are a lucky fellow. Congratulations. That does look to be quite interesting for a cartridge and gun. it is a pretty unique cartridge. I haven't seen any of them show up around here. I assume that some may have made it into the USA though. I think that the only cartridges found here in the USA were being sold to cartridge collectors one at a time.

[reed1911]

Yep, IIRC there are less than 100 in the US legally. Most were given as presentation gifts and remain with those officers (both military and congressional) as private trophy's.
In all honesty, there is really nothing special about it ballistics wise, and we have better cartridges in the same size packages here that are available. The only cause for its high value is the scarcity.

[Certaindeaf]

Wow.. never even heard of that one.. what a sexy, skinny beastie!

[9.3X62AL]

The best description of my eclectic collection of fusils and sideiron would Al's Weird Caliber Cavalcade. That said, I haven't seen or fired a 5.45 x 18 pistol, or its ammo. A look at its ballistics gives a close match to the 22 LR, and though 22 LR has been largely unobtainium-status for almost a decade--it hasn't been as scarce as the 5.45 x 18. I wonder what service niche this cartridge was designed to occupy......I have read that its purpose was to be better at penetrating layered clothing like that worn in Russia a good part of the year, since the 9mm Makarov got defeated by heavy clothing with some frequency. The 7.62 x 25 defeats heavy clothing (and some other mediums I won't get into here) pretty well, so I don't understand the need for a new pipsqueak caliber, but here is. Or isn't, rather.

[Expat74]

Here's an interesting article about it http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...darticles=2627

However, some info on the web seems somewhat between copy/paste from other articles, mixing up facts, and pure fiction.

[yenningComity]

Neat piece, but also do not understand why they did all that work to reinvent the wheel.

[9.3X62AL]

Good article, Expat.

yC, I had the same thoughts. American cartridge revisionism has its own checkered past, though--usually choosing to de-accelerate velocities and lower pressures toward some real or perceived end.

[Certaindeaf]

Neat piece, but also do not understand why they did all that work to reinvent the wheel.

Because back in the stone age the wheel was kinda rare.. probably.
It makes one wonder what today could be done with this cartridge and platform today.
It's an all steel piece made well and powders have come a long, long way.
Pretty moot now that we have the wheel and all but I like the cut of its jib.

[reed1911]

Not much more can be improved on the cartridge itself, 50FPS +/- here and there, but really that falls into the realm of weapon to weapon difference too. The big advantage to the PSM was the bullet and package, keep in mind this is the mid to late '70s, and there was a pistol with 7 rounds you could tuck into your pocket or crotch that would defeat (at the time) the most sophisticated body armor. THAT is a big deal. In today's terms, we don't have anything that matches it exactly, however, it is no longer necessary. The body armor has improved to the point that no package would fit what is needed in a pistol format to defeat the top end body armor and many other packages will defeat common armor with a different bullet selection.

[Certaindeaf]

Not much more can be improved on the cartridge itself, 50FPS +/- here and there, but really that falls into the realm of weapon to weapon difference too. The big advantage to the PSM was the bullet and package, keep in mind this is the mid to late '70s, and there was a pistol with 7 rounds you could tuck into your pocket or crotch that would defeat (at the time) the most sophisticated body armor. THAT is a big deal. In today's terms, we don't have anything that matches it exactly, however, it is no longer necessary. The body armor has improved to the point that no package would fit what is needed in a pistol format to defeat the top end body armor and many other packages will defeat common armor with a different bullet selection.

I think user "Clark" would disagree. He loads .25acp out of a handgun to rival a 25-06 out of a rifle. almost.. lol

[Earlwb]

Neat piece, but also do not understand why they did all that work to reinvent the wheel.

The Russians at the time wanted their guns and ammunition to be unique, different from the west. It is a pride kind of thing, machisimo. In the late 1800's and early 1900's all countries tended to be the same like that. They all had to have their own unique cartridges and even firearms. The USA even did it too.

[Earlwb]

I think user "Clark" would disagree. He loads .25acp out of a handgun to rival a 25-06 out of a rifle. almost.. lol

Well there are some guys who made some nifty wildcat cartridges using the little .25ACP and even the .32 ACP too. One that is pretty good is the ones necked down to .22 caliber using those cases. Some others necked the little .25 ACP case down to .17 caliber too. I think someone did a .14 caliber one as well. North American Arms necked the .32 ACP down to .25 caliber and made the .25 NAA cartridge for use in their little semi-automatic pistols.

[9.3X62AL]

At the time it came out, I had a hankering for a 5.7 x 28 pistol for some reason. I was probably thinking of rat strafing or some other morally-justified pastime (doing good work for hay farmers while having fun is a win/win in my book). A little-bit-of-thought later it occurred to me that the 5.7 x 28 was doing the same act and same script as the 22 Hornet in a T/C Contender or rifle so chambered, and didn't have that 20-round magazine problem that got you burned at the stake in California. I opted for the 22 Hornet, and that has worked well in a Ruger #3 and now a CZ-527 Lux. Not as much cool-factor as the newer whiz-bang caliber, but rats and jacks aren't into such subtleties and nuances.

[Certaindeaf]

Well there are some guys who made some nifty wildcat cartridges using the little .25ACP and even the .32 ACP too. One that is pretty good is the ones necked down to .22 caliber using those cases. Some others necked the little .25 ACP case down to .17 caliber too. I think someone did a .14 caliber one as well. North American Arms necked the .32 ACP down to .25 caliber and made the .25 NAA cartridge for use in their little semi-automatic pistols.

Well there you go. I always tell that Clark fella that the 25-06 already exists and that making a .25acp into one is folly but he sure still tries.

[9.3X62AL]

When I grow up, I wanna be Just Like Clark.

[reed1911]

The .25 ACP and .32 ACP were necked down the .10, .12, .14., .17, .20, and .22. I make and sell them. The .25ACP version is called the Dart and the .32 the Flea.

As small efficient cases for short range varmint shooting they work wonderfully. They are not intended to be defense choices though. The value of having limited range is a positive as any shots that are missed do not travel far, nor do pass through shots, and they are quiet.

[Intel6]

Never seen a gun to shoot them but I got a handful of the loaded rounds when I was stationed in Berlin, Germany in the 90's. Cool little round.