Snider rifle revisited

[craig61a]

I had trouble getting Cheddite shells to chamber with .610 RB,S. so I took the decaping pin out and run the loaded round through the sizing die and then it chambered and shot with no problem.it seems that the .610 RB. swells the case just a little too much.

Yeah I tried that too, since Track of the Wolf had .610 RB's available. Couldn't get them to chamber all the way.

[fgd135]

Bored out my 58 cal mould to .595 and hollow base

I have a Snider and am interested in finding out if any commercial source exists that would open up a minié mould to .595". My best results so far shooting the Snider have been with larger diameter bullets--I have an Accurate minié mould that throws a ~660 grain~ minié at .590", but the recoil is immense. I think a Lyman 575213 enlarged to .595" would be a better choice, esp. if it is less expensive than investing in a new mould...any ideas?

[swamp]

I have a mould that drops at 591. It is a short conical about 425 gr. Also have some mine style that that go .590-591. Two different weights. Some Champion moulds that Dixie had on sale a few years ago. If you would like to try some let me know. Would give me a reason to cast some up.
swamp

[ndnchf]

I have a Snider and am interested in finding out if any commercial source exists that would open up a minié mould to .595". My best results so far shooting the Snider have been with larger diameter bullets--I have an Accurate minié mould that throws a ~660 grain~ minié at .590", but the recoil is immense. I think a Lyman 575213 enlarged to .595" would be a better choice, esp. if it is less expensive than investing in a new mould...any ideas?

I just had Erik at Hollow Point Molds open up the bands of a Lyman 575213 to .594" for use in my 58 Roberts rolling block. He does great work.

[fgd135]

I just had Erik at Hollow Point Molds open up the bands of a Lyman 575213 to .594" for use in my 58 Roberts rolling block. He does great work.

I just corresponded with Erik, thanks for the info. I think this sounds like the best option.

[ndnchf]

About 2 weeks ago I cast a bunch of minies with the mold Erik reworked. They came out at about .5945" with 30-1. I sized them through a home made .5937" sizer. I'm very pleased with his work.

[Col4570]

Some usefull info here.

[toot]

SWAMP, if you do cast up a few can you throw some my way to try?

[swamp]

toot,
I will keep you in mind. I got a few done. Having some fill-out problems with one. Did not cast long enough. I think it is just a matter of the mold not being hot enough.

I will post some pictures latter of the boolits.

Attachment 153581

The two on left are the Dixie molds. The right one is a Bernie Knowles(? spelling)
the measurements:
.588-.590 .588-.589 .588-589.
From the latest castings.





swamp

[toot]

swamp, I like the looks of them. they are short, two grease grooves an one with a single grease groove. the mold really has to be hot to get the wrinkles out. thanks for the reply, toot.

[Buckshot]

.............The Sniders can sometimes be a problem due to their sometimes idiosyncratic chamber dimensions. I am not an expert on Sniders but have read quite a bit about them and I have 2 of'em. One is a 3 band, and the other is a 'Carbine-ized' rifle. Both of them have the MkII ** action. Apparently part of the chamber problems have to do with the fact that there were 3 makes of cases used by the military.

The carbine that I have cam from a Canadian friend who is a retired RCMP Captain. In some e-mailing he'd discovered I had a 3 band Snider and asked if I'd like some Snider 'parts'. I said Of course I would! So I got a package with everything except the screw that held the hammer on. My pal said that he hadn't been the one to shorten the barrel. It had been hack sawed off and never recrowned, so that was the first issue to correct.



So with the action dogged up on a center in the headstock, with the muzzle in a steady rest it didn't take long to realize that the bore was NOT concentric with the OD of the barrel. I broke the setup down an turned a brass rod down to 'just' enter the bore, and drove it into the barrel to a point where I had a groove turned on the brass rod. I then ground a tool so that I could reach into the groove to put a slight champher on the face of the bore, after facing off the muzzle. I was later informed after mentioning the off center bore that many rifles had bores that wandered around a bit



Sorry for the fuzziness but at the time, my old 1MPX camera was touchy about closeups. It turned out just fine and eventually turned in some good shooting.



On the left is the casemouth expander from the Lee Snider die set, and a Jamison case. Then a Jamison case opened up with the new expander I made. Graf & Son reduced the old CBC/Mag Tech Berdan primed brass to a very attractive price so I stocked up. I had 50 of these cases and had converted them to use 209 shotshell primers, and they performed very well. The conversion was simple to do. In the right photo the left case is loaded with a 480gr Minie' I'd swaged to .595", and on the right is a Lee .600" RB.



Above is 5 rounds each of 6 different loads of the Lee .600" RB over various iterations of black powder loadings. Not a one of'em was worth a continental. I have seen a few folks on You Tube experimenting with the Snider and BP loads who were doing pretty well. Seems the ones doing the best were using 1Fg, and carded wool (as per the original loadings) etc. But I have no 1Fg powder, nor any carded wool. I did finally experience some decent shooting however.



.577 Snider carbine @ 50 yards. Group 1.875". Lee .600" RB cast of WW metal. Over 24.0 grs of Unique went a .080" thick (double wad) pushed into the case 1/2", then a 1/8" lube wad. After that the RB was seated and crimped in place. The cases were primed with 209 shotshell primers. Avrg vel was 1475 fps. The 3 band rifle did almost as well, but I didn't have the chronograph on that trip.

.................Buckshot

[craig61a]

I sat down at the bench tonight and had a look at the Snider cases that were fired. I relocated the .610 RB that I bought. The case mouths did have a ever so slight crimp on them after being fired so I figured that the cases were engaging something at the front of the chamber. I took one of the cases and trimmed it back just to the point at where the crimp began. I was left with a measurement around 1.915" or so. A couple of quick measurements of the mouth at different points showed it to be on average around .608" - .609". Running my finger around the outside of the mouth, I could still feel some high spots. Stuck it in the chamber and it required a little thumb pressure to seat it but not a lot. Stiff extraction, but I attribute this to the high spots on the cases rather than the .610 RB.

So, I don't think the .610" RB will pose a problem, and I'll most likely be ordering a collar button type mold in that diameter. I still have to figure out what to feed the Nepalese Snider. Just hope it doesn't require another mold...

[sdalcher]

I brought one of these back from Afghanistan, been wanting to shoot it, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Only been five years... Thanks for the wealth of information shared.

[craig61a]

A few weeks ago I shot the cartridges I loaded up with .610 lead RB over 70 gr. of 2F. I had a 1/8" felt wad and two milk carton wads with a lube cookie, and a little shot buffer to fill the area under the RB and over the milk carton wad. I started out at 25 yards and got a group of about 2.5 inches, moved to 50 yards and got a group of 3.5 - 4.0 inches. I had a group of people gather around at the range to see what all the smoke was about, and the weird contraption I was firing.

I'll order the collar button soon in .610. Now I'm working on getting my Swiss Vetterlis going. Been sitting around for a couple of years without to much being done to get them up and running.

[craig61a]

I picked up a Lee Quick Trim die for 45 colt for $ 5.00. There's a slotted insert in there that I pressed out. There is a 45 degree cut that goes to a narrow straight cut. I measured it and found it to be .632, just a tad smaller than the od on the fired Snider cases. I polished the surfaces up and ran a fired case up into it. It rounded out the mouth and took the od to .633. ID is about .608 - .609. Just what I needed to get the cases mouths back to round and take the id down just enough to get a good grip on the seated boolit. I still have to order the collar button, but I'm looking forward to getting some of loaded up and getting out to the range...

[milrifle]

Good news! Brownells must have the 24 ga Magtech brass back in stock because I got an e-mail saying they were shipping some that I had on backorder for months.

[craig61a]

Yep, in stock. Wonder how long it will be available.

[Newtire]

Been doing some experimenting here as well. Found a new powder, Blackhorn MZ that seems promising. 80 grains (volume) and the boolit from the mold from x-ringservices (great outfit) shot well. I cut off some of the Cheddite hulls and with a .60 RB and 70 grains of FG Black, didn't get great accuracy. I did shoot some of the x-ring cast boolits with the cheddite hulls (just pushed 'em down in on top of a cotton ball and 70 grains of MZ) and these seemed to shoot ok, but not as good as the brass loads.
What are you guys using to take up extra space in the brass hull loads?

Backer rod 5/8” (foam window sealer in a round strand form). Just blows out the barrel and could about use it again. Doesn’t turn into a solid clump. Use it in .577 Snyder as well as 2-diameters of the stuff in the Martini-Henry; one for the body & then smaller for the neck.