450 Marlin or 45-70 Marlin

[bouncer50]

I do know the 450 Marlin is base on the 458 Mag case. But is really better then the old 45-70 brass case. You can find 45-70 ammo and brass that common. But is 450 ammo and brass easy to find. What is the cost different between the two.

[M-Tecs]

For me 45-70 all the way. Both of these post cover the why. If you check the Hodgdon site you will note that the 45-70 lever gun loads equal the 450 Marlin.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...881-450-marlin

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...50+Marlin.html

[oldred]

I do know the 450 Marlin is base on the 458 Mag case.

Well yes and no, it may have started out on the drawing board as a 458 mag but the design was modified and you can not easily make 450 cases from 458 magnum cases since the belt on the 450 is quite a bit wider.

[Duckiller]

45/70 killed a million or so buffalo. How many buffalo has the 450 Marlin killed?

[ole 5 hole group]

Availability of 450 brass is spotty. When you find it - stock up and never look back. The cost of Hornady brass is just under $1.00 a piece. It will last a long time. I have 8 loading on some brass and the primer pockets are still tight and the brass is good. I purchased 300 rounds of Hornady brass when I purchased my 450 Marlin and I think I'll have 200 unfired pieces when I pass, so the grandkids kids will still have plenty of brass!!!

Commercial or hot reloads just aren't much fun to plink with off the bench. As to performance, no difference if you reload but if purchasing commercial - there's no wimp loads for the 450 Marlin, as that cartridge can scare away elephants in any flower garden and can bring tears to a grown man's eyes.

[big bore 99]

Lots more options with the 45-70.

[Artful]

Lots more options with the 45-70.

45-70 availability and options has it all over the 450.

One of the reasons I have not done an AR-15 big bore is that I'm waiting
for the battle over what survives to be one by a single cartridge
(458 SOCOM, 45 Bushmaster, whatever).

The 45-70 has already passed this test - the Jury is still out on the 450.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've never shot a 450 Marlin calibre rifle, but I've always considered it a solution to an already answered question. The non standard belted case killed off any reloading interest I had in it and as my 45/70s already do what it can do, its purchase along with the necessary dies and brass never made sense to me.

Perhaps its development was to prevent hot 45/70 (ie. Buffalo Bore) loads from getting shot in older rifles?

I think that in a hundred years from now (God willing) our great grand children will still be shooting 45/70s and the 450 Marlin will be a foot note in shooting history.

[osteodoc08]

45-70 loaded to modern lever pressures is every bit the equal of the 450 marlin. Components are easier to come by as far as brass and dies go. My vote is for the 45-70 unless you need or want something a "bit different"

[scaevola]

I found a great deal on a 2000 made Marlin .450 and since I didn't already have a 45-70 and components, I bought it. Dies weren't a big deal - found a set on gunbroker for $35 delivered. Brass isn't easy to find but I'm slowly acquiring some.

I only buy factory loads I find cheap at gun shows and enjoy shooting reloads. I pretty much only load full-power loads -- If I wanted to shoot lighter loads I wouldn't take the .450 out.

But, if I'd found a good deal on a 45-70 instead, I'd have bought that and been fine with it.

[pull the trigger]

All 450s are cross bolt safety. I dont buy cross bolt safety guns so I will never own one. Besides that brass is really scarce round here

[ole 5 hole group]

Nothing wrong with the 450 Marlin - could be looked at like the 500 JRH compared to the 500 WE. Major problem, if one thought it a problem, is purchasing a box of 350 grain FP that doesn't fly at warp speed (2,000 to 2,100 fps) and has a rather harsh recoil factor.

Now, for the rifle itself. I find stuffing those cartridges into a Marlin not to my liking, whether 45/70 or 450 Marlin. If I had to do it all over again (purchase a 45/70 or 450 Marlin) I would go with the Henry rifle with a tube feed.

If you want to take the discomfort, you can work that lever really fast and put all rounds on an 8" pie plate at 50 yards in short order - that should give a little comfort to those in need of such firepower at short range.

[NoAngel]

I cast and load for the Marlin. Never shot one. My best friend loves it.
Its easy to load for and performs very well but their decision to use a different dimensioned belt is a BIG turn off.
If they had made is with a standard belt, it would have the potential (I said potential) to kill the 45/70 to all but the purists. Being able to make it from all the belted magnums that litter the gunrange trash cans would have been too good to be true.

Alas, it is not to be. The 45/70 has more support and availability and were I to choose for myself, it would be the 45/70 simply because I KNOW that brass will alway be made. The .450? They could stop making that at any time and few would cry.

[snowwolfe]

I once bought a 450 Marlin then quickly realized it did nothing the 45-70 is capable of. I now own two 45-70's and sold the 450 Marlin.
Its not the 450 is a bad round, its just that the 45-70 is much more common and easier to find brass and ammo for if you buy factory ammo.

[TXGunNut]

450 Marlin solves a problem I don't have, probably never will. Creates too many problems, brass availability tops that list. Nothing wrong with the 45-70, no need to fix it.

[JesterGrin_1]

It all depends on ones point of view. I have used but never owned a 450 Marlin but have read some educated reviews of said cartridge of which was stated that they feed better than the 45-70 Government through the Marlin. Sorry to say I could not tell a real difference between the 450 Marlin feeding and the 45-70 Government in my JM Marlin 1895GS. I remember Ranch Dog wrote an article on the 450 Marlin ,Marlin 1895 and how much he liked how it fed the rounds.

I will say as others have the 450 Marlin is a propriety case design. So making brass for the 450 Marlin from something else will be no easy task. Plus the brass is not easy to find nor cheap once found. And due to the belt on the 450 Marlin case they may not last as long as the 45-70 Government brass will. But I can not prove this.

For the above reasons and probably many others that I am sure I missed I am happy that I shoot the 45-70 Government out of my JM Marlin 1895 GS to good effect and without regret. . As a matter of fact it is probably one of the best rifle purchase decisions I have ever made.

[smkummer]

Its all been covered above. If your the person who likes something different, then you may be the person for a 450 marlin. I believe all of us here are reloaders so we didn't see the need. Just yesterday I was shooting my 1895 SS 45-70 (22" blued, half tube, cross bolt, pistol grip and ballard rifling with a flat point 350 Lyman bullet made for the 45/75). 14.6 grains unique and about 1300 FPS. Sighted in at 200 yards and so pleasant to shoot and cheap as heck to load. I love the configuration. I will try some marlin loads sometime but for now, I am really enjoying the light kicking target rounds. Yep, our great grandchildren will be able to find ammo and brass for a 45-70.

[Doc Highwall]

The 450 Marlin has only one advantage over the 45-70, and that is that the factory ammunition is already loaded to high pressures and velocities for non re-loaders giving them a powerful lever gun. Now I know that Garret loads heavy loads but they are not carried in every store that sells ammunition and the factory 450 Marlin will be much more available.

The disadvantage of the 450 Marlin is that it is a lever action cartridge foremost and the 45-70 is available in single shot rifles, double rifles, bolt action rifles, and lever action rifles. The 45-70 is even available in hand guns like a Contender and revolvers like the Century Arms or BFR, and I am sure I missed another type of action as well.

[NoAngel]

While not for everyone, this is one thing the Marlin round can do the 45/70 cannot.

***Scroll down about 3/4 of the way down.***

http://www.ar-10-rifles.com/index.php

[W.R.Buchanan]

As Doc stated above the .450 Marlin cartridge is generally loaded pretty hot as compared to .45-70 factory ammo. (Not Garrett or Buffalo Bore)

The whole purpose of the cartridge was to be able to have high power factory ammo that couldn't find it's way into a Trapdoor or other weaker rifle.

No mainstream .45-70 ammo is loaded above acceptable Trapdoor pressures. Thus the intention was to idiot proof the round and the gun and provide a gun that exceeded factory .45-70 performance.

Ammo and Firearms Companies are not only in business to cater to knowledgeable shooters, they have a responsibility to protect the morons as well.

Thus the .450 Marlin Cartridge.

Randy