Do we really want grey wolfs?

[SeabeeMan]

The hunter in me says "shoot, shovel, shut up". Everything else in me says all things in balance. We barely understand how we impact ecosystems, let alone other species.

They were here long before we were and are as integral a part of the planet as we are, there is a heck of a lot of hubris to say that we get to determine what species live or die en masse.

My fear would be the lack of understanding regarding the connections within, and between, biomes. If we simply start exterminating things we have no use for, it's pretty easy to envision a point where we simply cause the collapse of an ecosystem by wiping out the mosquitos, which kills the dragonflys, which allows an overpopulation of a parasitic wasp, which decimates the bees, and voila, no food for us.

[NavyVet1959]

My fear would be the lack of understanding regarding the connections within, and between, biomes. If we simply start exterminating things we have no use for, it's pretty easy to envision a point where we simply cause the collapse of an ecosystem by wiping out the mosquitos, which kills the dragonflys, which allows an overpopulation of a parasitic wasp, which decimates the bees, and voila, no food for us.

Be that as it may, may I be the first to suggest that we completely exterminate fire ants and mosquitoes first? If it takes out some other species in the process, so be it.

Of course, the one species that really needs to be exterminated is "liberals". Unfortunately, they're kind of like hogs -- the breed faster than they can be killed off. I suspect that if we got rid of all the government regulations that protect us from our stupidity, the number of liberals will decrease though. I suspect that the reason that cars no longer have metal dashes is due to some clandestine government plan to "save the liberals".

[oldred]

The bottom line is the do-gooders are attempting to put Humpty Dumpty back together and it simply can't be done! They seem to think people and dangerous predators can co-exist but they can't without encountering serious problems but of course these people only see Wolves as they appear in Disney movies! The problem, that is if it was a problem, is that Wolves disappeared because people moved in on their territory in large numbers so attempting to solve this "problem" by reintroducing Wolves and other predators without removing the people first is leaving out a very critical part of the equation! It's impossible to put things back "the way they were" back when Wolves and other wildlife roamed freely and introducing a dangerous predator near populated areas and or farmland does not in any way make it the way it once was, it simply creates a situation that has never existed before!

[Rustyleee]

NO! If you want to see them go to a zoo.

[Duckiller]

Wolves control coyotes. The one good thing about wolves moving into an area is that they kill coyotes. When they run out of coyotes they kill lots of other animals. Federal dept of Fish and Wildlife should probably be disbanded. And the endangered species act should be revisited, we don't need to save every thing that is on earth today.

[SeabeeMan]

Excellent point. You can't put things back together without removing that which initially caused there to be a problem. In this case, "that" was humans and the problem was caused by our species encroaching on the habitat/territory of another species. The bill for progress of one species is often paid for with the existence of another. That being said, I don't think it is appropriate for one species to simply decide to exterminate another because we don't like them.

If you want to take the religious route and claim that humans were put on Earth to hold dominion over all living things, then I'm pretty sure making those decisions isn't up to us. If you want to play the logic card, then we should probably not make drastic decisions without a full understanding of the consequences. If you prefer the "I'm don't like them, so I'm going to kill them" route, then I might as well just make the Nazi reference now.

Godwin's Law, the only thing more accurate than Murhpy's Law!

Any way you take it, I don't see a justifiable way to simply exterminate them.

The bottom line is the do-gooders are attempting to put Humpty Dumpty back together and it simply can't be done! They seem to think people and dangerous predators can co-exist but they can't without encountering serious problems but of course these people only see Wolves as they appear in Disney movies! The problem, that is if it was a problem, is that Wolves disappeared because people moved in on their territory in large numbers so attempting to solve this "problem" by reintroducing Wolves and other predators without removing the people first is leaving out a very critical part of the equation! It's impossible to put things back "the way they were" back when Wolves and other wildlife roamed freely and introducing a dangerous predator near populated areas and or farmland does not in any way make it the way it once was, it simply creates a situation that has never existed before!

[montana_charlie]

If you want to take the religious route and claim that humans were put on Earth to hold dominion over all living things, then I'm pretty sure making those decisions isn't up to us.

If not 'us', then who?

There are variations based upon which translation you prefer to read, but they all say something like:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

That pretty well says that God delegated to 'us' full authority over the whole complex.

So the consensus here is to play God.

I am unaware of any passage in scripture where He recinded that authority, so it is still our job to do that.

CM

[NavyVet1959]

So the consensus here is to play God.

Well, as they say, "It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it..."

[45 2.1]

If you look up "Agenda 21", I believe you will see where all this unbelievable stuff is coming from.

[C. Latch]

I imagine a world where all land is privately held and landowners can do as they please with regards to wildlife - fence your place off, shoot every wolf that you see, form a cooperative with other landowners and make a wolf haven - do what you want with your place.

Want to save wolves? Get rich, buy a giant ranch, grow wolves, charge tourists to come hear them howl.
Want to destroy them? Get rich, buy a giant ranch, kill them all and have a deer/elk paradise. Your land, your call.

[SeabeeMan]

In the end, for me at least, it boils down to the idea that if you live on a cold wooden boat, you may be better served learning how to make blankets than fire. We live in this environment as part of it, not something above it. I would rather not see it destroyed lest there be no more deer, moose, or elk for my kids to shoot boolits at. Or no more grand kids to shoot them.

[jcwit]

Well, as they say, "It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it..."

Put yourself on a pretty high pedestal don't you.

Careful when pride catches up!

[NavyVet1959]

Put yourself on a pretty high pedestal don't you.

Careful when pride catches up!

Aim high -- 'cause gravity SUCKS...

[oldred]

Ok I don't think most here would advocate the extinction of Wolves, and it's my understanding they are not exactly on the verge of extinction. Nor is the danger to humans the over-riding reason not to reintroduce them to areas near populations and farms, although it can certainly be argued they can be a danger to humans, but rather it's more of a problem with what they can do to livestock, pets, etc. The fact is they seem to be pretty much in balance right now where they are so my suggestion is let's just leave things as they are, nothing is killed off to extinction and there are plenty of Wolves for people who want to see the dang things if they go where they are now, our cattle, pet's, etc (and children!) are safe. No action need be taken one way or the other, don't kill them off where they are not a problem and don't introduce them to areas where they would be a problem, it's as simple as that!

[fishhawk]

Wis. had a goal of 350 wolves in the state thy figured thats what "land" could sustain with out problems to humans live stock or the deer herd in the state. There are now almost 800 and the bunny huggers again had them listed as endangered so they are again protected and we are again unable to reduce the population to a level that the land can handle. It's emotion overruling sound management goals again to the determent of all.

[M-Tecs]

The hunting guide and lodging services are becoming extinct in some of the areas wolves have been reintroduced in. I will take deer, moose, elk and livestock over wolves anytime. I am fine with the wolf popular before the reintroduced efforts. The wolf was extinct in the areas populated by humans. It should stay that way.

[Plate plinker]

Yes I want one hanging on my wall. Besides there no kill em all.

[montana_charlie]

We live in this environment as part of it, not something above it. I would rather not see it destroyed lest there be no more deer, moose, or elk for my kids to shoot boolits at.

The populations of those game animals are much lower now in the areas where wolves were reintroduced.
Luckily, for someone with your point of view, that does not include Wisconsin ... but is quite acceptable 'in my backyard'.

It really makes me shake my head in wonder when I read something like this.
Wolf activists argue wolves have the right to exist in their native territories.
http://www.northlandoutdoors.com/eve....048LRi1j.dpuf

400 years ago, bears and wolves lived on Manhattan Island. But the "right to exist" there no longer seems to be a consideration.

CM

[oldred]

Well so far there are no Wolves that I know of here in East Tn outside of the Zoo but I assure you if I see one of the stinkin things I will treat it just as I would a Coyote and see no reason to tell anyone if I do.

[.30-06 fan]

Wolves and coyotes are typacally shot on sight around here. That said, i would not like to see them extinct. Its a balancing act.

Only the true hunter is the true conservationist.