Can I use straight WW or do I need to make a "mix"

[mugsie]

I'll be casting for 44 mag, 45 lc and 357 mag. I'm really new to this having just melted my first ingots of pure WW's this weekend. Can I cast with straight WW or do I need to add some tin to the mix? I have bars of 100% tin but what would be the ratio I need to come close to Lyman #2? How do I go about calculating it all out?
Thanks....

[jgh4445]

I am about to start casting for the exact same calibers and have the exact same question. I also would like to know where one gets bars of tin. To be honest, the only "tin" I knew anything about, till I started in this casting business, could be found on the barn roof. I don't suppose that is what ya'll mean by "tin" huh? I too would like to end up with something closey resembling Lyman #2, but am absolutely clueless as to how to do it. I've only cast pure lead RB's for my Flinters. Alloys are brand new to me. I've done searches and see references to tin and antimony, but the assuption is that the reader knows what the writer is talking about and just what metals and such, and exactly how much, make up this additive.

[w30wcf]

mugsie,

The composition of what is referenced as Lyman #2 has varied over the years from tin/lead alloys to 90/5/5 (90% lead/5%tin/5%antimony) which I feel is the true Lyman #2 alloy.

For your intended use, though, I would suggest the addition of 2% tin to your w.w. I have been using that combination for the past 30+ years in similar applications with very good results. The addition of the tin is by weight so, for example, for 5# w.w. [80 oz. (16 oz.'s per lb x 5 lbs.)] add 2% which = 1.6 oz.'s of tin.

Have fun.
w30wcf

[mugsie]

W30WCF - thanks for the info. Does this equate to a particular harness level or am I making it all too complicated? Would 2% tin be sufficient for the calibers I'm casting for? Thanks again folks....

[JSnover]

There's a lot of places to find tin and ather additives for casting. Buffalo Arms, McMaster-Carr and the Antimony Man are three. All are on the web. I don't think the caliber will determine which alloy to use, that's more specific to the rifle/load/intended use. Lyman #48 is one place to start if you'd like to know the composition and approximate hardness of each.

[KYCaster]

Mugsie, The 2% Sn that w30wcf recommends has very little effect on the hardness of the alloy. The purpose of extra Sn is to help the mold fill out better. You may find that you're able to get good boolits with straight WW alloy, but since you have the Sn available, add 2.5 oz. to 10 lb. of WW. If you're not pleased with the results, add another oz. and try that, if you're still not happy then adding more Sn probably will not help much.

You can't get Lyman #2 alloy with just WW and Sn, you'll also need to add Antimony (Sb), not as easy as adding Sn, but not impossible.

For virtually all handgun applications you can start with three basic alloy sources...pure lead (BHN 5)...WW (BHN 12)...linotype (BHN 20). Straight WW will take care of most of your handgun needs and simple mixes of the other alloys will easily handle the rest. I'd save the Sn to add to your softer alloys to help with fill out.

Try the WW first and if you don't like the results come back and ask more questions, somebody here will be able to help.

Good luck.

Jerry

[black44hawk]

First, you can obtain tin as well as a tin / antimony alloy from soldering wire. Most of that stuff contains tin and lead, but you can get the "lead free" that has 95%tin and 5% antimony. Try to avoid buying anything that advertises an "acid core". That stuff makes some pretty noxious fumes when you melt it and a strange black goo atop the lead melt. Next, about the addition of tin: I have found that on molds that don't require sharp fill in you can get away with no addition of tin. However, the addition of tin does improve fillout of the mold.

[mugsie]

Thanks guys - as soon as the molds get here I'll try casting just WW's this weekend. I can't wait. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions once I begin.
You don't think a WW only boolet is too soft for a handgun? Especially a 44 mag? Granted, velocities will only be 800 or so feet per sec so I should be OK yes?

[jgh4445]

Mugsie, I'm so glad you started this thread! Great answers. Even I could understand all that is being said. All this time I was under the impression that to increase the hardness you had to add tin. So...if I truly understand correctly, you can cast using only WW and then if you really need to increase the hardness, it's possible to water drop or heat treat as opposed to adding just tin. Then, you can tweak the alloy by adding tin and antimony to get a better fill. Correct?

[GrizzLeeBear]

Like the others said, the tin is really only added to help mold fillout. Anything over 2% doesn't do any good. If you are still having trouble with fillout, turn the heat up. Aluminum molds like a little more heat than steel ones in my experience.
I have gotten good accuracy with WW gas checked 30 and 35 cal. boolits up around 2000+ fps with no leading (use a good lube, though). WW will work just fine for anything you want to do in 44, 45 & 357.

[robertbank]

Try making Felix Lube. Recipe is a sticky. The lube works great in all my pistol and rifles I load for and I have experienced no leading. All I use is WW alloy. I water drop all my bullets right from the mold but it really isn't necessary for pistol.

Take Care

Bob

[Woodwrkr]

ITo be honest, the only "tin" I knew anything about, till I started in this casting business, could be found on the barn roof. I don't suppose that is what ya'll mean by "tin" huh?

That stuff on the roof of the barn has a coating of zinc on it. Stay away from it when you're casting!

[Pavomesa]

Mugsie, YES you can use just straight wheel weights. I've case and shot 1,000s of them. They are a little soft but suprisingly never gave me any leading problem except at the very highest velocity...which I seldom shoot anyway. And I know many other fellows who have had the same experience.

Personally I like a bullet a little soft, so long as it doesn't lead. Contrary to current wisdom, there is nothing sacred about hard cast bullets. You can actually get some mushroom with a softer bullet.

But don't take my word..........try it.

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Almost everything I cast is for Cowboy Action Shooting. So, I just cast straight WW's and am happy. That said, what is it you want the cast bullet to do for you? If just a mild to mid range plinker bullet, WW's are just fine. If you want to push it a bit or if hunting is your thing, then a blend is in order.

It all depends on your use.

[waksupi]

Since I've pushed WW boolits to over 2700 fps, I imagine they may work in your .44. Good luck!

[mroliver77]

Alot depends on what type of lead supply you have. If you have all WW then cast with straight WW. If you find lots of lead pipe, lead roof flashing or shower pans(sheet lead) or soft range scrap and not much WW I would blend the soft with the WW and drop hot boolits in a bucket of cold water. These should be hard enough for most anything you will do with a pistol. WW are becomming an endangered species.
J

[HeavyMetal]

mugsie:
As you've no doubt learned by know tin is not a metal "hardner" But it does allow the bullet to form nice crisp lines and edges which is a must for consistant weight in your casting.

I have for years used plain WW for 44 and 375 mag semi wadcutters, however I "quench cast"! This involves dropping the hot bullet from the mold into a 5 gallon bucket of cold water.

This is faster than trying to heat treat cast bullets and makes them just as hard. The down side of "quenching" is you run the risk of getting water in your lead pot and that will make your day pretty exciting!!

I am always careful how I set up my pot so I must make a 1/4 turn to be over my bucket of water. I also put some clean rags on the bottom of the bucket as a cuhsion.

This works very well and I suggest you give it a try.

Now if you decide you do need a harder alloy you can buy some linotype or if you get lucky foundry type. Both these alloys have a very high antimony content and will certainly be able to harden up any reasonable alloy.

I'll suggest you get a copy of Handloaders Bullet Making Annual! The second addition has an article showing alloy compositions, Foundry type is: 15% Tin 23% antimony and 62% lead .

By doing some clever blending with this kind of type metal you can get bullets that can hit 30 on the Rc scale.

BY the way Handloader was selling the collection of four annuals on dvd thats the way to keep the info if they are still selling it!

[carpetman]

Read Lyman---You start out with unknown(wheelweights)add exact this and that and have an exact. I never bought this. I use straight ww's and was told repeatedly---probably more than Waksupi has been told about blindness and playing with himself, that I needed tin to help fill out on .22 cals. Bought some tin and can tell no difference(Havent noticed Waksupi wearing glasses in any of his pics---dont know about that part).

[jleneave]

I use straight ww's and was told repeatedly---probably more than Waksupi has been told about blindness and playing with himself, that I needed tin to help fill out on .22 cals. Bought some tin and can tell no difference(Havent noticed Waksupi wearing glasses in any of his pics---dont know about that part).

That is hilarious!! Now I know why I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other!!!

[MT Gianni]

I find that my revolver cartridge loads shoot better air cooled than water dropped. This is whether they are shot out of a 20"bbl or a 5 1/2". Gianni