Starting over; .308 Winchester

[runfiverun]

I'd prefer aa-4350 if I had to choose one of the three.
I'm running H-4831sc in my 308's it cleans up the trash when you get close to 50-k and a little Dacron filler gets you there with a tick less powder.
part of the trick here is getting the boolit started into the barrel [straight] and then accelerating it to speed.
if the hunter powder is on the slow end of 4350 I'd go with it for a few rounds, use the filler and a warm primer to help it burn a little more efficiently.
if it's super dirty and I wanted to still use it I'd trickle 2-3 grs of red-dot in the case first, then the hunter and top it off with a filler to keep everything in place if necessary.
if you are trying to push the velocity envelope you are going to have to go off the grid a little.

[DeanWinchester]

With the IMR 4350; start at 40 gr and workup to 46 gr in 1/2 gr increments. A Dacron filler will not be needed. Be anal in bullet selection; visually inspect and reject for any defect no matter how small. Then weight sort those selected in groups of .3 gr variation. Then GC, size at .311 and lube with the 2500+ lube (it will work better than the Blue Soft). Use 10 shot test strings preferably, 7 shots at a minimum. Take your time shooting and keep the barrel cool, probably 1 shot in 2 minutes as the fastest. Let the barrel cool completely between test strings.

Larry Gibson

I managed to snag a thousand Win magnum rifle primers too. Should i use them or a standard Win primer?

[Larry Gibson]

Standard WLR primer. No need for the magnum primer in the .308W with IMR 4350 or with 2015.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

I'd prefer aa-4350 if I had to choose one of the three.
I'm running H-4831sc in my 308's it cleans up the trash when you get close to 50-k and a little Dacron filler gets you there with a tick less powder.
part of the trick here is getting the boolit started into the barrel [straight] and then accelerating it to speed.
if the hunter powder is on the slow end of 4350 I'd go with it for a few rounds, use the filler and a warm primer to help it burn a little more efficiently.
if it's super dirty and I wanted to still use it I'd trickle 2-3 grs of red-dot in the case first, then the hunter and top it off with a filler to keep everything in place if necessary.
if you are trying to push the velocity envelope you are going to have to go off the grid a little.

I also have become a great fan of AA4350. It is very consistent lot to lot, meters very uniformly in my Lyman 55s and provides excellent accuracy. I've also done well with H4350 and IMR 4350 but the AA4350 has definitely won me over. In this case Dean could only get the IMR so that should do, just a PITA to me to weigh all those charges........However, once he finds a load perhaps his thrower will throw uniform enough charges(?).

Larry Gibson

[DeanWinchester]

I also have become a great fan of AA4350. It is very consistent lot to lot, meters very uniformly in my Lyman 55s and provides excellent accuracy. I've also done well with H4350 and IMR 4350 but the AA4350 has definitely won me over. In this case Dean could only get the IMR so that should do, just a PITA to me to weigh all those charges........However, once he finds a load perhaps his thrower will throw uniform enough charges(?).

Larry Gibson

Ppffffffftttttt!!

If thats my biggest problem, I'd be happy as a tick on a dog. I take no issue with hand weighing charges. It's relaxing to me.

[RickinTN]

I hope the IMR 4350 works so well for you that I hear the screams of joy from my house! I have an 8-pounder of IMR 4350 that I intend to work with in a .308 and an '06 soon, although with a bullet of 180 grains or so.
Good luck,
Rick

[DeanWinchester]

I only have 100pcs of fire formed brass for this rifle. I have quite a bit of brass i could work up though.
I already have those 100 loaded with 4759 & 2400 and i aint gonna tear them down.

Would you wait to try the 4350 or just run it in some full length sized brass? Reason i ask is, i only get to the range once a month. If i wait for and use the formed brass, it'll be another month before i can try them.

[runfiverun]

a handful of resized brass rounds should give you an indication of the loads potential.
leave a donut on the base of the neck if possible to help center the round in the chamber better.
half of the accuracy you get will come from holding the boolit in line with the center of the barrel or as close as you can get.
I have indexed my cases based on a piece of cello-tape being in place on the bottom of the case neck before.

[DeanWinchester]

I hereby formally concede that you guys are smarter/better handloaders/casters than i have capacity to be. I accept defeat. Life is too short.


I started this morning early so I could shoot slowly. Ten rounds, 40.0g of IMR4350 ran just over 2 inches. I might would try this some more since it was only one charge and the first time i ever tried it but there was tons of unburned powder. Whole kernels in the barrel.
Next was 4759. Now i know why this powder was discontinued. Its garbage. Ten rounds each: 18.0,19.0,20.0,21.0 & 22.0 first group was over four inches. As i worked through the first (5)five round groups, it got worse so i ended up just blasting the other half at rocks and dirt clods to be rid of it. That powder is up for trade locally. Jeez!

Next i had (50) rounds loaded with 2400. (10) each @ 17.0,18.0,19.0,20.0 & 21.0
results were on par with what ive been getting. Ten (5) round groups ranging from .75 inches to 3.125 inches NO CONSISTENCY or pattern to the incosistency. Only 18.0g acted like anything, group 1 = 1.06 and group 2=.75
That seems worthy of revisiting but 17.0g & 19.0g were all over the place and nowhere close so I'm calling 18.0g a fluke.

SO! What else did i try?
Fireformed hornday match brass, Win large rifle primer, 46.5g of BL-C2 and a 168g Nosler ballistic tip seated .010 off the rifling. (2) Ten round groups and i did NOT give it time to cool. I just shot the things. How'd they do? How about under an inch for ten rounds on both. First group measured .950 ONLY because (and DONT LAUGH) i had mexican food last night and i was holding back a fart on the last shot and got a flyer as seen at 12 o'clock.




So, far as I'm concerned I'm gonna start buying 168g jacketed bullets and that's all this rifle will get fed. Only accurate rifles are interesting. I think with time and tinkering i can get these groups even tighter.


On a lighter note, i shot some clover leafs with my .454 Handi rifle using a 340g cast boolit. I was VERY pleased. Ive got a .357 mag handi rifle coming tomorrow to keep me occupied. I have also started a little savings jar. My next cast boolit rifle will be a .358 Win and my days of casting for .308 are done.



I wanna thank each and every one of you for your time. I really do appreciate all ya'll's effort to help. I will be the only one on this forum to believe this, but....308 winchester is a jacketed bullet only cartridge. The only .30 caliber casting I'll be doing will be for my buddy's old Ishapore.....maybe.

[waco]

That's a bummer man. My .308 loves SR4759
this is 10 rounds at 50 yards. It wil do sub 1.5" at 100 consestantly

[Larry Gibson]

Ten rounds, 40.0g of IMR4350 ran just over 2 inches. I might would try this some more since it was only one charge and the first time i ever tried it but there was tons of unburned powder. Whole kernels in the barrel.

And you gave up? That was the "start load. My suggestion was to start there and work up in 1/2 gr increments to 46.5 gr. You still have 13 more loads to test. Did we think we were going to hit gold with the first swing of the pick? The 10 shots in just over 2" sounds like a good start to me.

Did you use a Dacron filler (3/4 gr should have been plenty) with the 4759 and 2400?

Larry Gibson

[DeanWinchester]

Yeah, I've given up. I was going through my data book for this rifle and I'm just about to pass 1K rounds. That's THIS rifle, not the nearly half dozen others before it. The only repeatable grouping has been with stupid jacketed boolits. I said REPEATABLE results, not good results. Something else is going on and I lack the ability to figure it.
I've done my brass prep and seating as best I can. Alignment is good. No shaving or any of the other novice mistakes.
It's just not worth it to me any more. Even if I had the clairvoyance to see that only a few more months and I'd have it, I would be done. I've lost the desire to see it work. I just flat out don't care any more.

It's time to move on. I said I quit a couple months ago but I kept at it. Five years and several rifles is enough. I have had too many successes with other calibers to keep fighting it. 35 remington, 454 casull rifle, .450 marlin, ALL my handguns. Some have taken more work than others but not years worth. I'm really glad you guys can do it. I can't. And now....I won't.

I'm looking heavy at a Browning BLR in .358 Winchester. That's a nice rifle!

Thanks everyone.

[Silverboolit]

Good luck with the BLR, it is a nice rifle. FWIW, IF you want to give the .308 a last go, PM me and I will send you some cast and load data to try. May not work, but you and I have essentially the same rifle. Yours is a Weatherby and mine is a Howa. Same birthplace and maybe very close in build.

[Larry Gibson]

Want to send me that LBT mould to see if I can make it work?

Larry Gibson

[HollowPoint]

Yeah, I've given up. I was going through my data book for this rifle and I'm just about to pass 1K rounds. That's THIS rifle, not the nearly half dozen others before it. The only repeatable grouping has been with stupid jacketed boolits. I said REPEATABLE results, not good results. Something else is going on and I lack the ability to figure it.
I've done my brass prep and seating as best I can. Alignment is good. No shaving or any of the other novice mistakes.
It's just not worth it to me any more. Even if I had the clairvoyance to see that only a few more months and I'd have it, I would be done. I've lost the desire to see it work. I just flat out don't care any more.

It's time to move on. I said I quit a couple months ago but I kept at it. Five years and several rifles is enough. I have had too many successes with other calibers to keep fighting it. 35 remington, 454 casull rifle, .450 marlin, ALL my handguns. Some have taken more work than others but not years worth. I'm really glad you guys can do it. I can't. And now....I won't.

I'm looking heavy at a Browning BLR in .358 Winchester. That's a nice rifle!

Thanks everyone.

I've owned rifles like the one you've been struggling with. And I've spent an inordinate amount of time and money trying to get them to shoot the bullets I wanted them to shoot. Both rifles I'm eluding to would shoot my jacketed reloads with consistent accuracy as long as my bullet weights were 168 grains or over.

My problem was that I wanted my rifles to shoot lighter weight cast lead bullets so I could use them to hunt coyotes.

These rifles simply refused to accurately shoot anything lighter than 168 grain bullets -wether cast or jacketed- with any kind of repeatability.

I eventually gave up also; until it dawned on me that if I tried a cast bullet that weighed the same as the jacketed bullets I was getting good accuracy with, maybe then I'd get the accuracy I was hoping for. Heavy bullets will kill a coyote just as dead as light weight bullets.

I couldn't find a 168 grain bullet mold that didn't cost more than I was willing to pay so I went with one of the cheap Lee heavy weights. I can't remember which one exactly. This was some time ago but, seated on top of the standard 16 grains of 2400 powder, my first time out to the range was a real eye-opener.

Good Lord man, when I think of all the time and money I wasted trying to get my rifles to shoot the bullets I wanted them to shoot instead of the bullets that these rifles were telling me all along that they wanted to shoot, I might still have a full head of hair.

The moral of this story is; my rifles just didn't like the lighter weight bullets.

HollowPoint

[DeanWinchester]

I've run heavy too. The Lyman 311299 was a LOT worse than this. A lot worse. I've seen turkey guns make MUCH better patterns than the 311299 shot.

[nekshot]

when the heat is on and I get real serious about groubs I use a towel and a bucket of cool water. After each shot I place the towel around the barrel for about 2 minutes each time I shoot. I like the results it gives. I want to know how capable the load is for repeatability not for braggin but to give the rifle the ability to be the same for each shot. Might just be essentric but it makes me happy!

[runfiverun]

if the rifle won't shoot 17 grs of 2400 with any decent boolit you are probably smart to give up.
the only other load that will generally beat it is 28.5grs of 4895 with a filler.

[detox]

If your chamber leade measures .311 and you are sizing with a .311 sizer, your bullets are too big because of alloy spring back and maybe causing gas check to be knocked off. Try a smaller .310 sizer and let the bullet and gas check spring back slightly under leade or throat size (-.0005). If your leade measures .311 you need a .3105 diameter bullet and gas check. A micrometer is a must

Try the Lyman 314299 with your soft alloy. The bore ride section will shrink back to about .002 over bore size. Or try using linotype alloy with your smaller 311299 bullet, the lino will shrink less and will help make bore ride section slightly larger (needs to be about .302 SNUG). You may have to crimp bullet behind front drive band to prevent movement during chambering.

Do your gas checks snap on easily without shaving? I like using a modified lee punch (concave end). Or sizing bullets upside down in my RCBS Lubamatic with hollow nose punch of same caliber. I size bullets dry with no lube. Then hand dip bullet bands in thinned alox (mineral spirits) and allowing to dry on wax paper over night (resting on their bases).

Raised sprue cuts will prevent gas check from seating fully when using flat faced punch. I cut my sprues with gloved hand and putting downward pressure on sprue plate while opening. This leaves cut flush with bottom of bullet.

4759 is my go to powder for the 308...give it to me.

[tomme boy]