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Thread: Powder Coating 101 - Electrostatic Method

  1. #501
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    Hi all, talking about HF powders..I read that someone had trouble with the matt black and was worried about being too coarse and having a lapping effect on the barrel?? True or false question time..hehe!! One could do 2 coats really...black as a base and then red as a finish??

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosco555 View Post
    Hi all, talking about HF powders..I read that someone had trouble with the matt black and was worried about being too coarse and having a lapping effect on the barrel?? True or false question time..hehe!! One could do 2 coats really...black as a base and then red as a finish??
    Been cussed and discussed MANY MANY times on here. Do an 'advanced search" for HF black abrasion.

    Not a problem for me.....use it all the time.

    Double coating is just a waste of time and energy.

    banger

  3. #503
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    Banger a question. In post 527 you said that you don't start the 10 min. bake UNTIL the bullets start to melt the paint!? I was under the assumption that baking time started when oven was a full temp.?

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbstenberg View Post
    Banger a question. In post 527 you said that you don't start the 10 min. bake UNTIL the bullets start to melt the paint!? I was under the assumption that baking time started when oven was a full temp.?
    I always start with an "at temp" preheated oven @400F. Mine is there in about 8-10 minutes depending on the AZ outside temp! (in the summer, I can just put them on the patio in the sun! ......just kidding!)

    When you open the door.....that lowers the temp a bit.

    Depending on the number and cal of boolits you have in there, they are acting as heat sinks and absorb the heat......that lowers the temp.

    If using fender washers to hold 223's and 30's.....those are big heat sinks and will hold the temp down longer.

    Once the boolits start heating up, the powder will start to melt & get shiny and you know you are back on track to getting that 400F setting. Depending on your oven, some will recover rapidly and some will not. A convection unit tends to recover very fast as it is moving the hot air around with the fan.

    I then set my timer to 10 min when I see ALL the slugs are turning shiny. That insures all the temp variables are eliminated as best can be. I cook anywhere from 200-350 boolits at a time and that is a bunch of cold lead to heat up. You are concerned not with the temp in the oven but the temp IN/OF THE BOOLIT. Short of putting a t/c in one of the boolits, this is the easiest way of determining product (boolit) temp.

    This procedure has always worked for me and produces an excellent coating that always passes the hammer test and never has any leading.

    And to save time and electricity, if you are doing multiple batches at on time, do NOT let the oven cool off with the boolits in there. Take the racks out when the oven dings and put other loaded ones in right away and start them heating up. Let the boolits cool outside the oven. Some water-drop to try to gain hardness. I mix my alloys based upon desired hardness using air cooling.

    Have fun!

    banger

  5. #505
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    Badger puts more effort into it than I do. I just set the oven at what looks like 12 - 14 minutes and bake them. When they come out I dump them into the bucket of water.

  6. #506
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    If you're trying to clean off powder from your oven MEK (methel ethel keytone) works well. It is kinda harsh, don't breath the fumes or smoke while you're using it. Btw, I hope your window is glass and not some kind of plastic.

    Ebner

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebner glocken View Post
    If you're trying to clean off powder from your oven MEK (methel ethel keytone) works well. It is kinda harsh, don't breath the fumes or smoke while you're using it. Btw, I hope your window is glass and not some kind of plastic.

    Ebner
    I cannot imagine any toaster oven with PLASTIC! It is a safety tempered pane of glass, like they all are.

    Acetone or laq thiner (one of it's primary constant is acetone anyway) is the perfect solvent for the resin "smoke". MEK is an over kill. And it REALLY stinks. I have a gallon of it and use for only special purposes. it is one of the "hottest" solvents available to the general public.

    banger

  8. #508
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    Jim, you are right. MEK is overkill but if it's something you just can't get off with anything else, it will work. You say you have a gallon of it, open that lid on a hot summer day and you won't have a gallon for long. I haven't seen it around my parts in the hardware store in a long time due to meth heads.

    Ebner

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebner glocken View Post
    Jim, you are right. MEK is overkill but if it's something you just can't get off with anything else, it will work. You say you have a gallon of it, open that lid on a hot summer day and you won't have a gallon for long. I haven't seen it around my parts in the hardware store in a long time due to meth heads.

    Ebner
    Lowe's and HD still sell it here in my area.. I get all my finishing supplies from a local professional finisher's supply center. Better prices and stuff the ordinary guy does not even know what to do with!

    It REALLY stinks. I keep it sealed VERY tight. It is one of contributors to that "cooking smell" they describe with meth labs!

    I use it mainly on dissolving vinyl and repairs. I learned many moon ago I could not draw off a pint into my standard plastic bench bottles like I do all the other solvents I use! It goes right thru the polypro plastic and evaporates in a short time.

    banger

  10. #510
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    Good morning, all, my 1st post here at castboolits....

    I've been casting rifle and pistol boolits going on 30 years. I had HEARD about powder coating, even seen a few, but didn't think much of it. Having read up on it and how effective and (reasonably) cheap it is, I'm diving in.

    I bought a Craftsman compressor (3gal, 1HP) which I believe will handle the HF powder gun (yet to be purchased). If this will work with this, lemme know...(will it work with impact wrenches?)

    I've watched a few you tube videos on this and read most of this thread, so I do have a few questions which may sound repetitive, so please bear with me...

    Will PC work in 30cal bullets in a Garand (another future purchase)?
    My basic casting involves water dropping the bullets, dumping them out on a towel and letting them dry until I'm ready for sizing. That can be tomorrow through next month. Other than running them through the sizer (and then reloading), I don't handle them. Given that I'll be coating in batches and will handle them with gloves, is it necessary to de-grease before coating?

    What should I look for in an oven? A friend of mine has a kitchen oven, but it's 240v and I'm not sure I want to get into wiring, but I can afford free.

    You folks talk a lot about trays and nuts. I could sure use a pic or three as well as an explanation.

    I have safety glasses I use at work. I understand a respirator is required (suggestions please!) but do I also need goggles? Gloves for sure...

    Is there any kind of filter (or whatever) i need to put in line with the compressor and gun?

    I'll have some more questions, but I really thank you folks for any information.

  11. #511
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    I'm not sure if the compressor is big enough. You should get an inline air drier. I have yet to shoot PC rifle bullets but from what I've read reduced loads seem to work OK. I have a small convection toaster oven that works great there are mixed reviews on non convection ovens. I am looking for a free oven so I van powder coat larger items. I live on the edge and don't use glasses or an resperator I stand up wind when I PC. I use flat trays with nonstick foil on them and don't hand a problem with 380 9 and 45. Good luck and enjoy

  12. #512
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    Here's a lot of ideas about trays. Nearly everyone has a little different twist to the things they bake on.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...82-Tray-Ideals

    Convection ovens work best, but you can get by with a regular oven if you can regulate the temperature to really close to the target temp. Most oven temp controls vary wildly. If you get a good thermometer and watch the oven and learn it with various size/weight loads of boolits, you can get by, since it's free.

    I spray out in my yard, so I don't use a respirator. I probably would advise it in a closed area.
    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

  13. #513
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    only spraying at 10 to 15 PSI .. make sure your air reg will hold fairly steady at that low a pressure ..(you don't want wild up and down pressure spikes) .. if so Your compresser will be just fine ..
    second on the air dryer .. nothing fancy or real costly just a dryer
    welcome to PC'ing bullets
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  14. #514
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    Doesn't take a lot of equipment. Small compressor, cheap o toaster oven WITH a thermometer to measure the temp (which will likely NOT correspond with front panel settings) and you're good.

  15. #515
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    Well gang, I appreciate the advice.

    Took the Craftsman compressor back and brought home it's big brother, so there's no problem with that now.

    The tray ideas look interesting....

    I'm planning on starting with 38Spl 156gr RN from the RCBS mold. Since this is NOT GC, I assume that powder on the base is ok...? Since there's considerable discussion about that for GC, I assume that's not a good idea...

    My current inclination is to drill a plate of aluminum to accommodate the nose of this bullet the size necessary to get it to stand up. Then spray and then bake. I'd like to get it all as it might help improve speed loading but we'll see where that goes.

    I've suggested a convection oven thing to daughter for Father's day. It's pretty impressive how cheap those things can be new and/or used, the 6-slice models being larger and more desirable.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisinterestedThirdParty View Post
    Well gang, I appreciate the advice.

    Took the Craftsman compressor back and brought home it's big brother, so there's no problem with that now.

    The tray ideas look interesting....

    I'm planning on starting with 38Spl 156gr RN from the RCBS mold. Since this is NOT GC, I assume that powder on the base is ok...? Since there's considerable discussion about that for GC, I assume that's not a good idea...

    My current inclination is to drill a plate of aluminum to accommodate the nose of this bullet the size necessary to get it to stand up. Then spray and then bake. I'd like to get it all as it might help improve speed loading but we'll see where that goes.

    I've suggested a convection oven thing to daughter for Father's day. It's pretty impressive how cheap those things can be new and/or used, the 6-slice models being larger and more desirable.
    In my humble opinion, all that is not needed. I know the convection ovens are better, but a cheapie will do.....just experiment and keep the time/temp up until your boolits pass the acetone wipe test, and you can smash them without flaking. The bases never touch the barrel, so for handguns just sit them base down, spray, bake, and run through a sizer without additional lube. If you start pushing 1250fps, there are other methods. Proper size still matters with PC, I go about .002 over.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYShooter73 View Post
    In my humble opinion, all that is not needed. I know the convection ovens are better, but a cheapie will do.....just experiment and keep the time/temp up until your boolits pass the acetone wipe test, and you can smash them without flaking. The bases never touch the barrel, so for handguns just sit them base down, spray, bake, and run through a sizer without additional lube. If you start pushing 1250fps, there are other methods. Proper size still matters with PC, I go about .002 over.
    I'm not a "faster faster faster" kind of shooter, at least with handguns. I keep my 38Spl/45ACP loads enough to break IDPA power factors with a comfortable margin. Rifles I shoot for accuracy, and a hit at 1500fps is a lot better than a miss at 2100fps.

    Just shopping Amazon, the diff between a convection and regular toaster oven is under $15...I can get either for $40 or less. Will also case the local thrift stores....no reason why one can't have multiple ovens...

    I am currently sizing 38Spl at .357. Are you suggesting .359? 45ACP, I size at .452. Should I go higher? Same with 45LC...

    Can you explain the "acetone wipe test"? Again, I'm just starting out here...

    Again, I appreciate you guys....

    D3P

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisinterestedThirdParty View Post
    I'm not a "faster faster faster" kind of shooter, at least with handguns. I keep my 38Spl/45ACP loads enough to break IDPA power factors with a comfortable margin. Rifles I shoot for accuracy, and a hit at 1500fps is a lot better than a miss at 2100fps.

    Just shopping Amazon, the diff between a convection and regular toaster oven is under $15...I can get either for $40 or less. Will also case the local thrift stores....no reason why one can't have multiple ovens...

    I am currently sizing 38Spl at .357. Are you suggesting .359? 45ACP, I size at .452. Should I go higher? Same with 45LC...

    Can you explain the "acetone wipe test"? Again, I'm just starting out here...

    Again, I appreciate you guys....

    D3P
    I am having chambering problems with my new match grade barrel 45ACP 1911. 452 is too large....swells the brass so the cases will not fit in the chamber. I am ordering a 451 sizing die and a factory crimp die to get the cases back into shape so they will fit like factory ammo does.

    The only test that I feel is critical is the hammer test. Smash the boolit nose to base with a 3# heavy hammer on a steel block until it is 1/4" thick. The coating should NOT come off or flake. If it does, you have problems with time/temp/grease/baking.

    Early on, someone on here came up with this "wipe test" thing. I have found that any PC (good OR bad) will dissolve with acetone and a rag. So the test means nothing in my testing. I use acetone to remove the PC residue from the inside of my oven!!!! But do what you feel you need to.

    I size 38SPL as standard lead boolit.....358. I size after casting AND after coating. After many hundreds of rounds done that way and that size, I have no problems with leading or PC left behind in the guns I use.

    I am another that does not worry about "how fast did it go.....how fast did it go". I stay in the subsonic range for most everything. If I go fast in my 223's and 30's, I use FMJ slugs or factory loads.

    Welcome to the madness!!!!!!!!

    banger

  19. #519
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    Well yesterday I went to the hip and bought powder(matte black & red) and the gun from HF. Mask from Grainger. B&D convection toaster oven. Compressor et all fired up and pressurized. I have some 30 cal boolits I have had laying around for years after I sold the mold, so these are prime (read expendable) test articles.

    Wish me luck here and we'll see what happens.

  20. #520
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    Good luck! Photo documentation is helpful!
    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check