Pistol Boolets in the 35 Remington

[Grandpa Dolan]

I am new to the Forum. I have read some fine coments and advice on the 35 Remington. I shoot Cowboy Leveraction Silhouette, with lead boolets.. I find the 30-30 that I use does ring a ram sometimes. There is a 35 Remington 336 1951 vintage coming my way now and I think that 200 grain RCBS will solve the "ringing" problem out there at 200 yds. What I'm looking for is information on useing lighter boolets. Cant seem to find any.. 150 grain boolets at 1500 is plenty for the shorter ranges, with low recoil. Has any one tried the 357 lead pistol boolets in the 35 Rem, How did it work, Please share your experices (good or bad) Thanks guys...Joe

[waksupi]

Welcome aboard, Grandpa. I'm also curious about the lighter pistol bullets in the .35 Remington, so we can learn together. I tried some in my .358 Winchester, but never acheived good results. Although, I didn't get real serious with the testing.

Gosh, there are sure a lot of new people signing in. Welcome to all!

[Singletree]

Welcome Grandpa,
My 35 Rem. comes in a Super 14 Contender. By far the bullet of choice for it is the Lyman 158 grain SW. With a 2X7 scope and benchrest it will almost keep them touching at fifty yards. My son, disdaining the pistol bullet in his 336 went to the 200 grain RCBS bullet. His young eyes with iron sights will keep that particular bullet inside an inch at fifty. The 35 Rem. certainly seems to be a good platform for the use of cast boolits in a variety of weights and velocities in my experience. Have fun.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Welcome aboard, Grandpa. I will be watching with interest your results in .35 Rem. with pistol boolits. One of my projects for when I get around to it, is trying pistol boolits in my 16 twist .35 Whelen. That rifle is almost a 24" barrel
.38 Special!

[KCSO]

I shoot a 180 gr 357 rnfp bullet al the time in my Model 8. This is mostly with a lighter load of Unique or Red Dot so I work the bolt by hand. No problems and good accuracy, 2 1/2 to 3" at 100 yards and under an inch at 50. I also used this bullet in Dad's old Marlin and cast from Lino it did all right up to about 1500fps. Makes a good plinking and small game load.

[JDL]

It's not a .35 Rem., but the most accurate load in my model 70 .358 is the Lyman 358156 HP pushed along at 1654 fps with Hurcules 2400 powder, and it does almost as well with surplus 820. A 6 group average of 1.395" at 100 yards with 9 shots clustering into 1.52" is the best this rifle will do with cast. I have tried some loads with Unique at about the same velocity, but a 4 group average is only 2.60".-JDL

Barrel twist in my .358 is 1 in 14". HTH

[Grandpa Dolan]

Thanks for the replies guys. As I see it I have already picked up a place to start. That is as soon as the 35 gets here and the 10 days of nonsence pass. So I can pick it up..Gott'a say also that I really aint new to this. About 70 years ago or was it 7. I talked a feller named Buckshot into taking all my 11 mm Mauser stuff. so I could have some room for 30-30s in the gun safe. I used the handle of Ol Gringo then. Wonder if he ever found that crack in that action. He sure was easy. Just been too busy with the 30-30s to keep up with this. Now I need help. Already found out about the 200 grainer, and I think I have talked Scrounger out of his RCBS mold for a while. That is if he can find it. More about pistol boolet experiences??????? thanks.

[9.3X62AL]

Gringo--welcome back! Wish I could help with your 35 Rem/358 boolit question, my closest comparable experience involves the 32-20 rifle and 30 Carbine rifle with 32 SWL boolits, and it's not what I'd call extensive.

[Buckshot]

............Grandpa Dolan (AKA Ol' Gringo) welcome to the board! I sold the M1884 Mauser to a buddy after I had fixed it up to be a repeater again, except I never could find a magazine tube for it. I did have it a "2 shooter" by laying a cartridge on the lifter tho' . I still have the M1884 sporter and it's nicely accurate, although I haven't shot it in awile. The 1891 Argentine you sold me sits in a place of honor and is as superb a shooter as anyone could ask for. It gets campaigned in the Burrito Match on occasion.

I was especially taken with the VZ24 you had converted to 30-30, as that was a very nice piece, indeed. Just so happens I have one of those rifles with a cancerous 8mm barrel and a 30-30 in that is interesting. How's your new (no so new now) floor?

I have a 35 Rem built on a 1894 Brazilian (FN) small ring Mauser action with a 16" twist. The twist chosen specificly to be able to utilize peestol boolits. I will have to say it absolutely dotes on the Saeco #356, 200gr slug, and as well with some of the RCBS's of that weight. I'd also been given some 250gr RCBS's and it did well with those, but I didn't have enough to really wring it out to reach the velocities I wanted.

Some stuff I've tried with peestol slugs that worked well. For me, "Worked Well" means iron sighted accuracy at 50 yards was 1.5" or less. This is thrown charges and visually culled slugs.

Lee 356-125R and 8.0grs Red Dot for 1365 fps
Lee 358-148 WC and 7-8grs W231 for 1325 fps (basicly a multi-lobed hole of about .75" C to C.

Lyman 358156:
8.0 W231 1316fps
7 to 9.5 Red Dot, 1276 to 1509 fps
8 to 10.2grs Unique, 1296 to 1528 fps
14 to 15 grs 2400 1450 to 1537 fps

RCBS 35-162 SWC 9 to 11grs SR7625 1317 to 1527 fps.

While I lived out in the sticks my favored ground squirrel medicine was the Lee C309-113F from my 03A1 Springfield at about 1450 fps. Absolute death and destruction on the vermin. I did try the 35 Rem and 148gr Lee WC due to it's extreme accuracy, but the only problem is feeding. A close miss would generally have the target haul ass, and trying for a rapid followup shot before it disappeared could be VERY aggravating.

One of the neatest shots on a ground squirrel was with the 35 Rem and the Lee WC though, and proves the value of the full WC. But I guess in size relation it would be like a human getting hit by the butt end of a phone pole. It was sitting on top of a steel T posts chirping away. A boiler room shot put the end to that. There was a ticket punch hole through the belly fur, but on the backside everything from the shoulders to the hips was gone. A bit gory but a hit like that with a 22RF (certainly fatal) might have had it still escape to a hole.

.............Buckshot

[waksupi]

Grandpa, Buckshot has complained about that for a couple years now. He says he thought the deal was for 11 Mausers, not an 11mm. He thought the deal sounded awful good. And the cracked reciever? I hear he's wearing an eyepatch now, but that could have been wife inflicted.

[Grandpa Dolan]

First, Thank you Deputy Al. And I have to tell you I enjooyed your recient information on the 32-20. I shoot an old Marlin 94 in that Cal in pistol cartrige Silhouette. 15/AA1680/ 114 G Old Ideal mold 311-77. It works.

Now thank you Buckshot for your kind remarks. Your Info on the 35 Rem. will save me a couple trips to West End. I'm sure I'll be looking for a wad cutter dang soon. It just sounds right.
Oh, I still have the Brno 30-30, shoot 25 to 28/AA2230/ 170 and 190 Saeco in (any rifle) Silhouette ever chance I get. It is the most accurate lead rifle I own and there are a few of 'em. Thanks again for the info...Grandpa Dolan You know I forgot me Ol' Gringo name when I signed up the other day..Take time to play.....

[MT Gianni]

My experience with the 356 Win. may or may not be applicable but I have found that changing bullet weight in this caliber involves a major sight change each time. Gianni.

[beagle]

Grandpa....I've shot a bunch of 358156HPs in my cut rifling .35 Remington. Does pretty good.

You need to look up Paco Kelly's article on the .35 Remington as it's a good read. Also, sometime in the last year, there was Frank Marshall reprint in one of the Fouling Shot issues with some lighter pistol bullet loads listed.

I'm kind of partial to the 35-200-FN RCBS. It's probably the best "out of the box" mould you can get for the .35 rem.

I've been experimenting with Lyman's 358430 (the 195 grain version) and it's HP version for a while now. Also the old Lyman 35875. Both of these are PB bullets but I size the base band down to .350" and install a GC and then size. Both bullets make a darn fine shooting load in the .35 Rem./beagle

[35remington]

GD, I have a few Marlin 336's in .35 Remington, both Microgroove, one an '80's model with the usual very short throat, and a newer rifle that has a considerably longer throat-maybe the way Marlin will continue to chamber them now?

The old, short throat Marlin is more tolerant of lead bullet loads using pistol bullets than the newer rifle. Both like the RCBS 200 FNGC, but that's not a pistol bullet. They have various reactions to lead pistol bullets, depending upon configuration.

The finicky long throat will not shoot the Lee wadcutter-holes in the target are nice and round, but groups are improved cylinder, on the order of 12 inches at 50 yards. Trying various seating depths and alloys and using dacron has not helped. Powders have included Unique, Red Dot, W231, 4759, 5744, 2400, H4227, H4198, and Reloder 7. It will shoot the Lee 158 SWC (tumble lube) using the same powders, but only adequately, on the order of 3 inches or so at 100 yards. It does like the Lee 158 RNFP, and does near 2 inches on a no wind day at 100 yards. You'd think that the WC would have an advantage in a Microgroove barrel, as it casts the largest diameter-.360-.361" depending upon alloy, but the smaller diameter (.359) SWC will beat it. The mould casting the RNFP does around .3585-.3595."

The older 336, which I think has a throat that would be similar to your rifle, shoots almost all cast lead pistol bullets adequately, and some very well. Favorite here is also the Lee 158 RNFP, with the Lee WC in very close second place. I will second Buckshot's description of the load as a thumper, and if you can get this bullet to shoot it makes an excellent small game and varmint stopper. Don't count on it feeding too well from the tube magazine, but the rifle will work as a two shot, which is all you really need anyway.

The WC will not be seated to proper length by some seating dies (no nose for the seating stem) but I can get my RCBS seating die to work by turning the seating stem in almost completely. Lee dies will not seat deeply enough unless you modify the die.

No need for hard bullets-wheelweights plus tin dropped from the mould are fine.

Some velocities follow, which are pretty similar regardless of bullet. All loads use dacron. From the less temperamental rifle:

12.0/4759 1250 fps
14.0/5744 1200 fps
16.5/5744 1380 fps
14.5/RL7 1070 fps
17.0/RL7 1225 fps
15.0/H4198 1150 fps
8.0/Unique 1300 fps
9.0/W231 1400 fps
8.0/W231 1300 fps

Both 231 and Unique are clean burning, if that matters for a plinking load. The rest are sooty and leave a little unburned powder, but who cares? They shoot anyway. 4759 and RL7 show the best groups so far, but I've got some testing with other powders going on. We'll see if that holds up. 1100-1400 fps seems to be the range that works for me, as regards trajectory and accuracy.

[9.3X62AL]

Grandpa Gringo--

That load of yours for the 32-20 sounds intriguing. Posters on several boards keep hammering about AA-1680 for the 32-20 and the 25-20......might be worth a pound to check out in those calibers.

[Larry Gibson]

Grandpa Dolan

Like Buckshot my .35 Remington is on a small ring Mauser, mine is on a M91 though. It has the 26" Shilen barrel on it from Brownells. The twist is 1-16", I think. I use two cast pistol bullets; Lymans 358516 and 358477. The first is a GC and is used upwards of 1700 fps with Unique for game I do not intend to eat. The second is a PB SWC that I load to 1000 fps with Bullseye for small game and plinking. I sometimes substitute commercial cast (tumbled with light coat of Lee lube) bullet of the same weight with the Bullseye load. They are both very pleasant to shoot and quite accurate. I put a Lyman reciever sight on the rifle and it is fun to shoot long range out to 300-400 yards with the GC bullet. When the Sun is right you can watch the bullet (glint off the GC) all the way to target. I have killed many a rock and cowpie with both loads.

Another really fun plinking load (deadly on squirrels and rabibits also, marvelous on fresh cowpies too!!) are commercial HBWCs over a very mild charge of Bullseye. I push them at 750 fps (hello .38 Special!). I use well fire formed cases with the flash holes drilled out with a #29 drill. This alleviates the shoulder setback problem (these cases are used with the previous mentioned bullets also). They are a single feed round which is ok.

When out camping I take powder, primers and bullets with me along with a few simple reloading tools. It is easy to deprime, reprime and use a small dipper for the powder charge. I leave the case mouths flared with the first loading and subsequent bullets are a push fit for seating, no neck sizing needed. I just wipe the cases of with a paper towel for "cleaning" prior to loading. I have sat around many a campfire with a cool beer, soft easy music, georgeous Sunsets and the wonderful smell of my wifes dinner cooking while reloading the empty cases for the next days plinking.

Larry Gibson

[floodgate]

Larry Gibson:

"I use two cast pistol bullets; Lymans 358516 and 358477. The first is a GC and is used upwards of 1700 fps with Unique for game I do not intend to eat."

As you may recall, I have been compiling a listing of all known Ideal / Lyman bullets and their dates of introduction and discontinuance, eventually to go into Beagle's BOOK. The #358516 is a new one I have not run across. From the cherry number ...516, it would seem to be in the series of zinc-washer base and half-jacket core moulds made for Jim Harvey of Lakeville Arms in the mid-1950's, but these are very poorly documented in the Lyman Handbooks and Annual Catalogs and #358516 is not included in any of these I have on hand.

I would very much appreciate photos of the mould and slugs, and maybe a few samples; PM me if you can help out.

TIA, floodgate

[Scrounger]

Larry Gibson:

"I use two cast pistol bullets; Lymans 358516 and 358477. The first is a GC and is used upwards of 1700 fps with Unique for game I do not intend to eat."

As you may recall, I have been compiling a listing of all known Ideal / Lyman bullets and their dates of introduction and discontinuance, eventually to go into Beagle's BOOK. The #358516 is a new one I have not run across. From the cherry number ...516, it would seem to be in the series of zinc-washer base and half-jacket core moulds made for Jim Harvey of Lakeville Arms in the mid-1950's, but these are very poorly documented in the Lyman Handbooks and Annual Catalogs and #358516 is not included in any of these I have on hand.

I would very much appreciate photos of the mould and slugs, and maybe a few samples; PM me if you can help out.

TIA, floodgate

Floodgate, I'll give you odds that Larry meant "358156". At least, that is the conclusion I jumped to. The clue was "gas check". This being able to read minds is a wonderful thing...

[floodgate]

Floodgate, I'll give you odds that Larry meant "358156". At least, that is the conclusion I jumped to. The clue was "gas check". This being able to read minds is a wonderful thing...

Scrounger:

No doubt you are correct: I was grasping at straws to fill some blanks in my list. BUT, if it WAS #358516, and if it WAS one of the "Harvey Jacketed Jugular" half-jacket core moulds, you COULD put a gas-check on it - and you'd have one heckuva single lube groove!

I was raised in Owens Valley, and spent a lot of time out in the deserts in the south and east parts of Inyo County; my wife's brother was Sheriff there in the '50's. From what I hear, it's beginning to get pretty well settled these days. A friend who prospected the area for gold, tungsten, uranium or whtever he could find said Mrs. P'hrump wouldn't let nobody file mining or homestead claims in "her" valley, and "fixed" the county recorder to "lose" any filings. Now it's a suburb of Vegas! GEEZ!!!

floodgate

[Singletree]

Floodgate,
I have three Lyman adjustable half jacket core molds, one for 22 cal. one for 38 cal. and one for 44 cal. Are these of any interest to you? They would be of early 1960's vintage when I ordered them thru either Herters world famous catalog stuff or Hodgdons catalog of that time frame. I was ordering lead wire from Herter's ( world famous professional guide quality ) to be cut to the appropriate weight and swaged into half jackets using Herter's ( see above ) swaging dies. The rural Montana postmarm told me she wouldn't handle anymore of those heavy boxes of lead wire (twenty-five lbs.) so I had better make other arrangements for lead wire,hence the need for core molds. If they are of interest, give a hollar.