BOAT-TAILED Gas Check Update/Teaser

[HollowPoint]

Looks great. If this all works out as planned do you think you will be making any that will be for sale?

I think I'm more of a "Theoretical-Bullet-Caster/Inventor/Inovator." While it would be a dream-come-true if these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks and bullets caught on and I was somehow able to make money off the idea, my main goal here was to prove this concept is viable and to make these for my own personal use.

Provided that these Checks and Molds test positively, I see no reason why any of the respected Mold-Makers on this forum couldn't turn out molds to cast these specialty Long-Range-Cast-Bullets. I'm certain they could produce bullet molds with a higher quality finish than mine; and with less effort. The same hold true with the dies for making the Gas-Checks.

On a personal and self-centered note: I would like to take credit for developing the idea, even though I may not have been the very first to actually put forth the idea of these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks. You all are my witnesses.

Speaking of Gas-Checks; Last night I went ahead and started tweaking my Gas-Check Dies so that I can form some aluminum Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks. I got as far as I could after work yesterday. If I get some time today I'll thread a small portion of this latest tweaked part and hope it works.

It will be my first time threading on my newly acquired lathe so this should be interesting. The threads are so I can adjust the dies by threading in or out without having to make a different die-section in a trial and error method.

I'm hoping to be able to cast up some bullets on Saturday morning. I may not even have to plug in my melting pot. The weather reports say it should be about 117 degrees out.

I'll be back later.

HollowPoint

[fcvan]

At 117 degrees, your molds and furnace should heat up faster I think the hottest day I ever cast was 105 degrees. I wear long sleeves and pants when I cast (no shorts and tank top for me) and so it was a tad warmer feeling. Working around a hot pot of lead didn't seem to bother me much. I was at least casting in the shade.

[HollowPoint]

I did some last minute income-producing work yesterday that just took the life right out of me. I'm a life-long Arizona resident and heat like this usually doesn't bother me as much but, for some reason it did yesterday.

I decided to take it easy today. I'll worry about casting tomorrow morning.

I've cast several times in the Arizona heat. (in the shade of course) Other than the ambient heat, it's no different than casting in the cooler parts of the year. I just mentioned the high heat more as a spoof than anything else.

This will give me time to dig around in my junk drawer for a piece of pipe and a couple of end caps to use for annealing the larger aluminum Gas-Check-Disks I made up yesterday after work. The pipe I'm using now has a smaller inside diameter so I can't fit the larger Check-Disks into it.

I doesn't always seem like it but I'm slowly moving forward with this project.

HollowPoint

[jasent]

Sounds like progress to me

[Artful]

In middle of high heat warning until 8pm Tuesday so don't over due it.

[HollowPoint]

I've got great news but, not enough free time to really explain in detail.

It's been a while since I posted anything on this project so I thought I'd better say something or risk having folks think I'd given up.

I haven't thrown in the towel. I've just been busy; really busy with income-producing work.

Yesterday and today I had two customers cancel out on me so I used that time to move forward with this project.

I now have in my possession, three professionally made 30 caliber Boat-Tailed bullet molds; and when I say "Professionally Made," I'm not referring to my home made molds.

What I don't have, until this weekend, is enough free time to cast up some bullets.

I'll leave you with that bit of information until I can get back here and give you the details. For now, it's back to work.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I cast up some bullets using that last bullet mold I had pictured in my most recent images.

The bullets themselves turned out OK. They were concentric but, (and this is a big "BUT") They were to damn big.

I mean that the diameter of the bullets were such that when I sized them down to the .3095" that I shoot them at, it almost completely erased the driving bands off of them; and I was sure I had measured correctly.

With this particular project, this was the closest I've come to wanting to give up on it so, I left everything out that day, just turned away from it and tried to forget about this project for a while.

This is about the time I had an Attack. It was an Attack of "Common Sense."

For the past couple of weeks I've been scrambling to get my Income-Producing-Work done so I could have some free time to work on this project. I was so focused on making up a Boat-Tailed Bullet Mold that I had lost sight of my original plan.

On post number 12 of this thread, you'll see more or less what that original plan was.

Rhetorical question: Have you ever been "Bitch-Slapped" by Common Sense???? It stings a little but, for guys like me, there are times when that's what it takes to get us firing on all cylinders.

While I was immersed in failed attempts at making my own Boat-Tailed Bullet Molds, I had forgotten that I now had a specialty "Centering Indicator Tool" that I could use to make perfectly aligned "Top-Plates" with the Boat-Tailed Bevels milled into them.

I could use this tool to make my "Top-Plates" to fit all three of my existing professionally made 30 caliber bullet molds. Not only that but, if I wanted to shoot Plain-Based Gas-Checked bullets all I had to do was remove the "Top-Plates" and my bullet molds would function as intended by the manufacturer.

I had both of my Lyman 30 caliber rifle bullet molds hollow pointed by Eric over at Hollow Pointing Services some time ago. (He does excellent work by the way) My single cavity Lyman 311291 has always shot well out of my Enfield and my K31. My K31 especially seems to like the heavier bullets.

Below; the first image shows a small sample of all the Gas-Checks I ruined trying to tweak my Boat-Tailed Gas-Check dies into submission. I actually got these to work quite a while ago.

I still have to make the dies that will form these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks out of my stash of aluminum flashing. I think I have that figured out now so it shouldn't take to long.

The second image shows an assortment of failed bullet mold attempts. It's frustrating because I've made bullet molds before and for the most part they were all fully functional; they just weren't Boat-Tailed.

I always wondered how a Boat-Tailed cast lead bullet might perform out of my 30 caliber rifles. Now I have the chance to find out exactly how they'll fly wearing these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks and Synthetic Tips.

During the time that I was laboring in vain to make a Boat-Tailed Bullet Mold that would drop bullets in the 150 to 165 grain weight range, it never occurred to me that I already had one that would.

The Lyman 311359 two cavity mold turned out to be just the ticket. From the factory, the bullets weighted in at about 130 grains. In its present form it drops "As-Cast" bullets with the Boat-Tail ends at 144 grains.

The solid flat points with the Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks in place came in at 150 grains exactly. The hollow points wearing Synthetic-Tips and Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks weigh in at 146 grains.

To a certain extent the weights of the hollow pointed bullets can be raised or lowered by increasing or decreasing the depth of the hollow point cavities.

The fourth image shows the Lyman 311291 single cavity mold and cast Boat-Tailed Bullets wearing Synthetic-Tips and Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks.

And, the fifth image shows my favorite cast bullet. It's the NOE 200 grain Spitzer.

As a Plain-Based Gas-Checked cast bullets they've shot real well out of my K31. I'm dreaming of even better long range results now that I have them concentrically Boat-Tailed.

Tomorrow I'll be reloading. The first time out I'll just be using the standard 16 grains of 2400 just to get a feel for how they're flying.

I'll be looking for wobbling, key holing and accuracy potential.

If you'll recall, even with the non-concentric Boat-Tailed bullets that showed signs of wobbling, I did get one group that measured about an inch at a hundred yards. It's possible that at a longer range they would have stabilized but who knows.

In one of my previous posts I mentioned that it shouldn't be any stretch for one of our resident professional Bullet-Mold-Makers to turn out Boat-Tailed Bullet Molds. I stand by that comment but, now having realized that just the Top-Plates can be made even more easily there's really no reason to have to make up a whole new specialty bullet mold. A guy can just make a Top-Plate to work on an existing bullet mold.

For now, I look forward to getting some free time to head to the shooting range.

I'll be back.

HollowPoint

[JeffinNZ]

I like the mould extensions. Beautiful job. You are taking this to a new level.

[birch]

I came across a 235gr .452 Lyman boattail bullseye mold. I havent tried shooting it yet, but I have heard that if gas checked, there is an excellent lube groove that magically appears. I also have not shot the boolit as a true boattail. I will post some results in the next week or so.

[HollowPoint]

I like the mould extensions. Beautiful job. You are taking this to a new level.

Thanks for the kind word. These types of "Extensions" are really nothing new. I've seen them used on molds where someone just wanted to add some length or weight to their existing bullets. I thought it would be a good way to add the Boat-Tail-Bevel to the base of my bullets.

Regarding the "Lyman boattail bullseye mold" mentioned by Mr. birch; I had never heard of such a bullet mold until now. A quick internet search of this mold turned up nothing for me. It sounds interesting though. I'll look a little harder.

HollowPoint

[Doc Highwall]

I think the Lyman bullet mould is really a bevel base bullet.

[Artful]

lyman 45266 does sort of look like a boat tail - it has a long bevel base.

[HollowPoint]

I got a little free time to work on making some of these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks out of Aluminum Sheeting/Flashing.

The dies I've been using to make my Copper Checks didn't seem to work as smoothly with this Aluminum Flashing. I ruined almost as many as I made.

Even after annealing the Aluminum I still had some problems. I think it has more to do with the type of Aluminum I'm using rather than the dies I'm using.

The Aluminum Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks that I did manage to form tended to come out with the mouths not perfectly even. I mean they were wavy-lengthwise; Not like the "Pop-Bottle-Cap" edges we see with the home made conventional checks.

I ended up throwing together a little Trimming-Jig that I used to bring the edges of the check-mouths to the same height. The Jig worked out OK but, being that it was quickly cobbled together, it's kind of flimsy.

If I can't get these Aluminum Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks to come out formed a little more evenly around the mouths, I'll have to break down and make one of these Trimming-Jigs that's a little more precise and a little more solidly put together.

I haven't tried to make these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks out of virgin copper sheeting yet. I still have quite a few of the pre-made 44 caliber conventional checks to use up first. Next time I'm at the metal store picking up metal stock I'll have to make it a point to buy some Copper sheet and some Aluminum sheet that's just a tad thicker and hopefully softer so it's easier to form.

The fact that I was able to form some Aluminum Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks tells me that it is indeed feasible. And since Aluminum is cheaper than Copper, that's a plus for me.

My original intent was to be able to form them out of Aluminum.

I thought you guys might like to see a sample of what they look like on a few of my bullets.

HollowPoint

[bmiller]

Wow, I can't wait for your range testing!

[HollowPoint]

Wow, I can't wait for your range testing!

That makes two of us.

I already have some of the Copper-Checked bullets loaded up. With any luck I'll be able to get away next week some time to do some testing.

I have high hopes for these Boat-Tailed cast bullets. I'd really like for the 150 and 146 grainers to perform well.

I think they'd make excellent long range coyote rounds.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I found a place online that sells nearly pure aluminum sheet that I think may work out well for forming these
Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks without punching right through the little aluminum disks.

They call it 1100 Series Aluminum Sheet. I'd never heard of it till the other day when I stumbled onto it
while searching for a softer Aluminum Sheet material to make my Gas-Checks out of.

It's .015" thick and supposedly "Dead-Soft." It should keep me from
having to anneal it before forming.

When I contacted them to inquire about the properties of this 1100 Series Aluminum they offered to send me out
a small sample to try before I buy. They shipped it today so it will be a couple of days before it arrives.

I went ahead and put together a new more solidly built Trimming-Jig for evening out the mouths of my Boat-Tailed
Gas-Checks. It's a little bit of over-kill but, I've already tested it and it works quite well for what it's intended to do.

I may get a chance to photograph it tomorrow.

If I do I'll post a pic of what I'm talking about; along with a couple of the Aluminum Checks I made from annealed Flashing.
I wanted to photograph one of my aluminum checks with the "Wavy" mouth but in my zeal to test my new Trimming-Jig
I trimmed the mouths of all the ones I'd already made without thinking ahead.

Late this afternoon, I finished up most of my income-producing work for this week. I have just a couple of motor cycle seats
that need my attention now. If I can get them done tomorrow I may have Friday off so I can go to the range and test
those new Boat-Tailed-Bullets I loaded last week.

I'll be back when I've got more updates.

HollowPoint

[Cag40Navy]

This is awesome! Cant wait to hear about the results!! Also, how did you make those red tips?

[HollowPoint]

Thanks Cag40Navy: The information on the "Red-Tips" can be found here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...synthetic+tips


Here's a pic of the "Trimming-Jig" I mentioned in my last post. I left it out the last couple of nights sitting on my bench and I'm now seeing signs of rust on the steel parts. (We're in the monsoon season here. High Humidity)

The pic may not come through as clearly as I'd like but I'm sure you can see how it's supposed to work just by looking at it.

I also included some of the aluminum checks I made earlier. It turns out that my close up pics do show some of the "Wavy-Mouths" on these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks after all. I believe it's caused by the extruding action induced while being formed. It's these "Wavy-Mouths" that this "Trimming-Jig" was made to remedy.

I'm hoping that the thicker and softer Aluminum Sheeting that I'm waiting for will mitigate some of the Waves on the mouths of these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks.

I finished up all my work today so I think I'll have the day off tomorrow. It looks like I'll be heading to the shooting range as I'd hoped.

I'll be back once I've done some testing.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I was really dreaming of stellar performance right out of the box but, reality has a way of bringing us back down to earth some how.

First off I'll list the loads I set up for these initial tests:

I loaded enough different rounds to give me enough test loads to do some initial sighting in. This left me with the following:

NOE 210 gr. Spitzer Boat-Tailed Copper Checks on top of 2400 powder using Magnum Large Rifle Primers.

Four of each loaded with 16 grains, 16.5 grains, 17 grains, 17.5 grains, 18 grains and 18.5 grains.

Lyman 190 gr. Hollow-Pointed Boat-Tailed Copper Checks with Synthetic-Tips on top of 2400 powder using Standard Large-Rifle Primers.

Four of Each with 16 grains and 16.5 grains.


I was a wishing and a hoping that my K31 would like the lighter weight 150 grain Lymans but, they were impacting all over the place compared to the 30-Caliber-Heavies.

Lyman 150 grain Solid Boat-Tailed Copper Checks on top of 2400 powder using Standard Large Rifle Primers.

Four loaded with 16 grains, three loaded with 16.5 grains and three loaded with 17 grains.

I did load and bring with me a few of the Lyman Hollow Pointed, Boat-Tailed Copper Checked bullets with the Synthetic-Tips.

Because of the weight differences and the Point-Of-Impact differences between the heavier bullets and these 147 grain light weights I ended up using them for sighting in the 150 grain Lymans.

I hope that maybe my Enfield will like these light-weights more than my K31 does.

I haven't been to the shooting range for months. Some of my groups (or lack thereof) might well be my fault and not the fault of the loads or the rifle but, I must mention; after I had studied my targets I did notice that my very first shot with a cold barrel at each individual bulls-eye was closer to spot-on than the following rounds.

Dispersal of the following shots in many cases tended to be in a vertical pattern. I noticed after the target shooting was done that the fore-stock at the muzzle was bearing down on my barrel ever so slightly. I think that our local monsoon humidity might have affected it because I "Free-Floated" it last year when I experienced the same problem with this rifle.

Pardon me if this sounds like excuses. I may be sounding like just another joker blaming "Global Warming" for my poor shooting. I can't really say one way or the other if this had any effect on accuracy. I think this was average shooting for me but, in their factory configuration, I've shot tighter groups as flat-base bullets.

For those who might want to jump in right here and ask why not just shoot them as flat-based Gas-Checked bullets if the accuracy is better? The answer to that question is that the purpose of this entire exercise has been to test the feasibility of a Boat-Tailed Cast Bullet wearing Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks to be used as a "Long-Range" hunting or target bullet. ("Long-Range" meaning 300 yards and beyond)

I believe now that the feasibility has been confirmed. Now that it has been confirmed I can now move on to the stage of working up loads for "Long-Range" testing.

Before I do that I'd also like to test these Boat-Tailed Bullets wearing Aluminum Boat-Tail Gas-Checks. This was my ultimate goal in the first place.

Below is a pic of the two targets I used for these preliminary tests. If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

I'm still waiting for the free sample of 1100 series aluminum sheet to arrive so I can see if it will help me form these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks any easier.

I'll be back once I've tested a batch of Aluminum Boat-Tailed cast bullets.

I almost forgot to mention: About midway though this shooting session I had a group of shooters come in and take up the next three shooting lanes to my left. One of the teenage shooters was trying to impress his cohorts by shooting across the shooting lanes at his buddies target. His cross-lane shooting resulted in my targets being impacted by his ricochets and flying debris.

You might notice various holes in my target that don't correspond with the descriptions I've given for my bullet's point of impact.

HollowPoint

[Artful]

I almost forgot to mention: About midway though this shooting session I had a group of shooters come in and take up the next three shooting lanes to my left. One of the teenage shooters was trying to impress his cohorts by shooting across the shooting lanes at his buddies target. His cross-lane shooting resulted in my targets being impacted by his ricochets and flying debris.

You might notice various holes in my target that don't correspond with the descriptions I've given for my bullet's point of impact.

HollowPoint

So let me guess - Casa Grande Range? 'cuz usually the range Nazi's at Ben Avery or Usery Pass would be all over that.