PTR91 or CETME?

[Love Life]

I hope this is the right part of the forum. I am looking for a semi auto 308 (I know bad time), and the fricking Socoms have sky rocketed over the last couple weeks. I have the opportunity to pick up a NIB CETME or PTR91. Which would you pick (if any) and why?

Thank you in advance.

[Artful]

PTR91 will have a tighter chamber and give better accuracy but some suffer from less reliability
CETME should have a looser chamber and be more reliable - but this all boils down to who made the barrel/rifle up.

I'd be inclined to go PTR91 and pick my ammo more carefully - but then again I went HK91
Oh, and if you live in a wet climate be aware of rust issues on the receiver by the mag release area - was a big problem in Central American fighting.

[Love Life]

Hmmm. Maybe I should just squash the semi 308 right now. Hopefully 7 months from now prices will come back down and I will have a better chance, but the PTR91 and CETME just have a certain appeal.

[Artful]

HK delayed blowback system will give a more abrupt recoil than FN-FAL and is like AR/Stoner system more adaptable to change... That's where Colt got ideas about modular assembly. But unless your build is Euro/Germanic the ergonomic's might be an issue.

[MtGun44]

CETME safety works backwards, rear sight is a silly paddlewheel, and they are rebuilds
by Century, iffy quality. I have owned a couple of Century's G3 rebuilds, similar, but better rear
sight, safety works in the correct direction, still - roughly rebuilt, sloppy tolearances, but
after some rework they run. Some of the paddle wheels spin very easily, probably easy
to bump to the wrong range.

PTR 91 has the reputation of being much higher build quality than the Centurys and is
built like a HK91, far better rear sight, safety that works the right way (down = off) IMO
safety alone means I would never own a CETME, IMO dangerous design in a world
where essentially all the battle rifle safeties work the other way.

Bill

[timspawn]

PTR's are built on HK tooling I believe. I have had and shot both. I would go with the PTR. I have one now that is an SBR built by Vector on a PTR receiver and it runs just fine.

[Combat Diver]

I would also go with the PTR.


CD

[Artful]

PTR's are built on HK tooling I believe.

The PTR 91 was developed with the tooling from the H&K licensed G3 arms plant in Portugal.
With most major parts manufactured in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTR_91F

[Love Life]

Thank you for the info. I have never held one before, but they both look like LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG rifles. I may be better off just getting another bolt 308 with a 20 inch barrel. Hmmmm.

The PTR91 I am looking at is $1,200.00 which I thought was reasonable before the hoopla and now it seems very reasonable. It just looks HUGE.

[HighHook]

All those .308 platforms are very thirsty. When i pull one of those out i am prepared to burn through 300+...

[Artful]

Thank you for the info. I have never held one before, but they both look like LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG rifles. I may be better off just getting another bolt 308 with a 20 inch barrel. Hmmmm.

It aint the length it's the weight
But remember it's a BATTLE RIFLE and when you shoot multiple rapid fire shots the weight helps hold her down.

PTR-91
Barrel 18" or sniper version available with 20"
Weight 4.41 kg (9.7 lbs.) empty
Length 1,026 mm (40.4 in)
Barrel length 450 mm (17.7 in)

M14/M1A
Weight 9.2 lb (4.1 kg) empty - 10.7 lb (5.2 kg) w/ loaded 20 round magazine
Length 44.3 in (1,126 mm)
Barrel length 22 in (559 mm)

FN FAL
Barrel: 21"
Weight: 4.3 kg (9.48 lb) unloaded
FAL 50.00 (fixed stock): 1,090 mm (43 in)

M1 Garand Rifle
Weight 9.5 lb (4.31 kg) to 11.6 lb (5.3 kg)
Length 43.5 in (1,100 mm)
Barrel length 24 in (609.6 mm)

M1 30 Carbine
Weight 5.2 lb (2.4 kg) empty 5.8 lb (2.6 kg) loaded w/ sling
Length 35.6 in (900 mm)
Barrel length 18 in (460 mm)

M16A2 rifle
Weight 7.18 lb (3.26 kg) (unloaded) 8.79 lb (4.0 kg) (loaded)
Length 39.5 in (1,000 mm)
Barrel length 20 in (508 mm)

M4 Carbine
Weight 6.36 lb (2.88 kg) empty 6.9 lb (3.1 kg) with 30 rounds
Length 33 in (840 mm) (stock extended) 29.75 in (756 mm) (stock retracted)
Barrel length 14.5 in (370 mm)

Bolt action BATTLE RIFLES
1903 Springfield
Weight 8.67 lb (3.9 kg) depending on wood density
Length 43.9 in (1,115 mm)
Barrel length 24 in (610 mm)

98 Mauser
Weight 4.09 kg (9.0 lb) with empty magazine Gewehr 98 3.50 kg (7.7 lb) Karabiner 98a
Length 1,250 mm (49.2 in) Gewehr 98 1,090 mm (42.9 in) Karabiner 98a
Barrel length 740 mm (29.1 in) Gewehr 98 590 mm (23.2 in) Karabiner 98a

Mosin-Nagant Rifle
Weight 4 kg (8.8 lb) (M91/30) 3.4 kg (7.5 lb) (M38) 4.1 kg (9.0 lb) (M44)
Length 1,232 mm (48.5 in) (M91/30) 1,013 mm (39.9 in) (carbines)
Barrel length 730 mm (29 in) (M91/30) 514 mm (20.2 in)( carbines)

Lee-Enfield / SMLE
Weight 4 kg (8.8 lb)
Length SMLE: 44 in (1,118 mm)
Barrel length MLE: 30.2 in (767 mm)
SMLE: 25.2 in (640 mm)

You could do a lot worse looking at a Ishapore 2A/2A1 in 308
Weight 4.7 kg, unloaded
Length 44.5 in (1130 mm)
Feed system 10 or 12- round magazine, loaded with 5-round charger clips

I always thought they made a mistake in not designing it to use FN FAL or L1A1 Self-Loading Rifle magazines

or even

Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle in 308
BARREL LENGTH: 16.5"
OVERALL LENGTH: 38.00" - 39.50"
WEIGHT: 7 lbs

[Love Life]

9 1/2 lbs empty isn't that bad at all.

[jp99]

HK delayed blowback system will give a more abrupt recoil than FN-FAL and is like AR/Stoner system more adaptable to change... That's where Colt got ideas about modular assembly. But unless your build is Euro/Germanic the ergonomic's might be an issue.

I find my PTR91 and all Cetmes I've owned to have lighter recoil for some reason, may just be how I hold just personal experience with them. I also find they fall back on target better than any rifle I've shot(other than an AK74 I owned, no recoil at all), also just my experience

CETME safety works backwards, rear sight is a silly paddlewheel, and they are rebuilds
by Century, iffy quality. I have owned a couple of Century's G3 rebuilds, similar, but better rear
sight, safety works in the correct direction, still - roughly rebuilt, sloppy tolearances, but
after some rework they run. Some of the paddle wheels spin very easily, probably easy
to bump to the wrong range.

PTR 91 has the reputation of being much higher build quality than the Centurys and is
built like a HK91, far better rear sight, safety that works the right way (down = off) IMO
safety alone means I would never own a CETME, IMO dangerous design in a world
where essentially all the battle rifle safeties work the other way.

Bill

On the Cetme remove the bump from restricting the safety to go down, this will NOT make the go fast option work on it. That being said I would definitely look the Cetme over with a fine tooth comb as there is some quality control issues with many of them. The PTR ammo sensitivity was a limited amount of them when they changed barrel manufactuers and they are made with the proper flute depth cut in them now. They can both be very accurate, my current PTR is 1" at 100 with a Hensoldt 4x this is one with the shallow flutes and match barrel. the last Cetme I worked on does 2" open sights military surplus ammo. I've never owned a cetme that did over 4" at 100 with good ammo. If you want to reload make sure to get a port buffer.

Regards,

JP99

[Love Life]

Wow that is a bunch of info!!

[jp99]

Wow that is a bunch of info!!

They are something I know a little about and am very passionate about the Delayed Roller Blowback action. Also with the Cetme look for ground bolt heads. Feel free to ask more questions or a good place to check out and read is Military Firearms, it's a rather good forum that was originally a cetme forum.

Regards,

JP99

[Love Life]

Do the fluted chambers make your brass a one time fire proposition?

[timspawn]

Do the fluted chambers make your brass a one time fire proposition?

No, not at all. The marks left on the brass are only cosmetic. Ejection is violent on HK rifles and brass sometimes gets dented. A port buffer will correct the issue.

[Love Life]

By violent do you mean like from a Browning BAR hunting rifle? Back to the researchmobile for me. Looks like a sweet rifle and compared to others in it's class I have looked at it seems to be the winner. Now if only FN FNAR rifles had iron sights, but alas that is not to be nor what the rifles were designed to be...

[timspawn]

By violent do you mean like from a Browning BAR hunting rifle? Back to the researchmobile for me. Looks like a sweet rifle and compared to others in it's class I have looked at it seems to be the winner. Now if only FN FNAR rifles had iron sights, but alas that is not to be nor what the rifles were designed to be...

They throw brass fast and far!

[waksupi]

They throw brass fast and far!

Yesiree!~

Here is a good basic run down.