Powder Coating Boolits

[wolfe28]

Good Evening;

As others have asked, and largely for the same reasons (wanting to get away from those J-word things), how fast can you push these PC boolets?

While I'm just getting into casting, I'm currently starting with just my straight wall calibers, because I like the velocity and range I get out of the bottle-necked cartridges that I shoot (308 Winchester, specifically). That said, if you can push one of these PC boolets with a gas check (and a fairly hard alloy) to somewhere between 2500 and 3K fps, I'd have very little reason to ever buy another J-word projectile.

Thanks,
D

[Ken73]

As others have asked, and largely for the same reasons (wanting to get away from those J-word things), how fast can you push these PC boolets?

That's a great question, and I think more testing is necessary. If you read through the posts, there was a test done with 300 BLK (Jailer) and he was able to push it to around 1800 FPS with no issues. Past that I think it might be degrading? Again, more testing is necessary.

Note too, that the powder coating process by its own nature, will heat-treat the lead and most likely soften it. An easy test would be to test the hardness of a non-PC boolit, then put it through the same process of curing (just the heating, not the coating) then test the hardness again. The PC is supposed to be a barrier for the lead and barrel.

That being said, I'm after the same objective; to never have to buy another j-word again. (The benefit of having any cool color I want on my boolits is just icing on the cake!)

One question I have that needs to be tested, is whether lubing the PC boolits after coating would allow you to push them any faster. For me, I've been loading up subsonic speed rounds (300 BLK, various pistol calibers) and haven't started working with supersonic rounds yet. While 308 Win is definitely on my list, I'm interested to see just what the outer limits are; I have a 6mm PPC that can push j-words pretty fast and I'd certainly like to be able to cast my own for that!

[Bad Water Bill]

Stay tuned and read EVERY page.

Most of us have to wait for warmer weather to get out for the real answers. Just because you can shoot them at -10 or so is only part of the answer.

When it warms up we will learn a lot more.

My OLD fingers go numb at 45 degrees so I have to wait to find out how they will work in a 22 of various twists.

[Raven_Darkcloud]

So far my tests with pc in my g19 has been good using the heat and dip (arg slow) and will get the hf pc gun. I want to do pc 7.62x39 and eventually 308 win. I would like to see pics of the mixed hf pc colors.

[Jailer]

Well I've decided to not pursue the powder coating any further due to the labor involved. It does work well, it's just not for me.

I'll be posting my Harbor Freight powder coat gun and powder at a slightly reduced price in the for sale section soon for anyone that wants to try this out.

[HDS]

Last night I tried some spent .22LR cases on top of the tin foil. Into those I placed a .224 sized boolit nose down. The coating results were excellent on the ones that did not fall. The way the boolits make contact inside the case, I do not think any major buildup will stop the electric charge from getting to future runs. Now that the concept worked, I'm going to permanently attach the cases to a piece of aluminum sheet so they do not fall. I'll still cover over the cases with tinfoil to keep down the mess.

This method gave me nice soft points with a fully coated base and sides.

Do you put a gas check on before coating the bullets? I was thinking that if one uses a gas check anyway, no big deal if the base is not sealed, you'll just do that when you put on the gas check and size it and all the exposed lead will be sealed up.

I was thinking of using a metallic mesh with gas checks welded to it, you put the bullets in the checks and coat them, excess powder will fall through the mesh and will not be lost like with tin foil. Then put the mesh into the oven, remove bullets from checks after they have been cured. Put on real gas check and size.

[popper]

OK, tried my rig with the GCs. Out of 16 I got 1 that I think I easily could put a GC on, 6 maybes. Couldn't get the lla/ acetone thing to work so I used mould lube(2 cycle oil). Biggest problem was I didn't get the CB all the way into the check, yes I tapped them with a hammer. The solid plate makes it harder to get a good coat on the rear band. All but 3 popped out with no problem. Got to rethink this before I do more. I'll try putting the GC on and see how that works.

[bmiller]

Stepped up the velocity on my powder coated bullets. Loaded 23 grains of blc-2 with my powder coated bullets. Guessing 2500 to 2600 fps. Hit what I was aiming at, but there are red streaks in my barrel! Not sure how far I want to go with this

[HDS]

I believe you coated your entire bullet from the pic I saw, maybe the red you see is from the base melting?

[bryonbush]

after months of having bought the stuff to make these, i finally did. i only did about 50-60. once i got my powdercoat gun to actually work, it was very quick. preheated while i set up the gun and pan with tin foil. then baked them at around 400 for maybe 10 min. I realized the problem you guys were talking about with the flange of paint. so i ligned a whole bunch up, then rolled them between two boards to knock most of it off. then i went ove to the sizer. sizing was very smooth which was nice and when sizing it knocked the rest of the flange off but it will kinda make a mess on the sizer. im going to load them and shoot them this weekend. but i was thinking about this... IF this cures the leading issues in my 40's, its not much longer in time to coat and size than it would to lube/size with the star. seeing that i could never get the lube issue right for the 40's, and i still have leading in the barrel, the time i spend PCing could easly outweigh the time spent cleaning the guns. by the time i reached the right temp for the lube, then got the star to work right, it was at least an hour later. so for a cost comparrison... for the PC gun, powder, and oven it cost me just under $50.00. now compare that to the $60 i paid for the used star, the$ for different waxes, and expensive dies for the star, its still cheaper to PC. heck even if you size with the cheap LEE sizers your GTG still. I did have some uniformity issues with the coat on some issues but pictures will tell the story.

[olaf455]

I have pushed 170gr in 308 win to 2400fps w/ no leading. I used polyester TGIC powder.
Accuracy was bad due to wrong alloy for that speed, and/or inconsistent coating ( powder by the pound liquid to powder doesn't seem to work so well for this application).

[olaf455]

Stepped up the velocity on my powder coated bullets. Loaded 23 grains of blc-2 with my powder coated bullets. Guessing 2500 to 2600 fps. Hit what I was aiming at, but there are red streaks in my barrel! Not sure how far I want to go with this

what was the makeup of the powder that you used? polyester, epoxy?

[popper]

bryonbush - Mine look just like yours, but I cook mine @ 400 for 20 min.. I cleaned the 40 this morning. I like PC (150 rnds so far and some were poorly done). Ran a tight dry patch, then an Ed's red patch to clean residue out. Just a few spots of lead at the chamber end. Chore boy took care of that easily. Some I did nose up, some base up. The leading came from a poor coating on the base band (did them on a solid steel plate) some from shaving lead with cases not fully belled. Slide was clean but the receiver & mag well were pretty dirty. Convinced myself the dirty cases are due to more blowback, not sure if faster or slower powder would solve it.
Bmiller - forgot what cal you're shooting. I'm going to Houston for sporting clays this weekend. If I can get the 308s I did this morning loaded by then I'll see how that works. I did 30-30 too but they will never go that fast. Red streaks on the leading edge of the rifling or all over? My normal lube is canola oil and I know it doesn't burn in the bbl. I suspect some flaked off and got 'run over' to leave any color other than black in the bbl. How did cleaning work out? Easy to get rid of the red?

[bmiller]

I am shooting 22 cal in 223. I did powder coat over the gas check. The powdercoating would not come out with a chore boy and hoppes ! I shot 3 55 grain fmjs through it, fouling not red, but it still there. I did not have this at approximately 2000 fps. I am thinking about trying the hi-tek stuff. If it is as good as Joe says it is, I hope Donnie bought an oil tanker of the stuff! The streaking was between the rifling.

[HDS]

What was the brand of coating you used? Whats the formulation?

I too would like to try the other coating method but it's not going to happen anytime soon due to lack of dealers in europe.

[popper]

OK, I got the GCs on most of them. I thought sizing to .310 removed most of it but it was crud out of the sizer, washed right off. I put the MAPP torch to the bad ones, it turned black, then to a white powder and just brushed right off. Try plugging the chamber and filling with MEK, soak for a day and use a brush to get it out. The HF stuff turned rubbery, kind of like latex paint mixed with mineral spirits. I opted out of the hitek stuff cause you need to do large quantities at a time plus several coats. Don't have a cement mixer or tumbler. Think I'll experiment with the 30-30 first as it won't go that fast with PB CBs. Just thinking here but maybe the coating on the GC caused it? You probably went up 10K psi and maybe caused plastic cutting?

[bmiller]

I have had 9mm PC bullets pressure tested. There was no statistical difference it pressure between these, sandstorm moly or plated bullets. It might react differently at higher velocity. I am using harbor freight powder. I have been thinking about trying powder by the pound's tougher grade of powder. For now, I want to try the hi-tek next.

[popper]

My comment was you went up in pressure to get the higher fps. The HF powder may not be able to take it; instead of a copper/steel seal you have a copper/plastic/steel seal. It could also be the higher fps or longer bbl. It is of value that you have found some limit to the HF powder, thanks.

[ryokox3]

Do you put a gas check on before coating the bullets? I was thinking that if one uses a gas check anyway, no big deal if the base is not sealed, you'll just do that when you put on the gas check and size it and all the exposed lead will be sealed up.

I was thinking of using a metallic mesh with gas checks welded to it, you put the bullets in the checks and coat them, excess powder will fall through the mesh and will not be lost like with tin foil. Then put the mesh into the oven, remove bullets from checks after they have been cured. Put on real gas check and size.

No GC, I'm trying to make soft points with a coated base, the intention is to eliminate needing to use checks. If it works well I'll ream out the gc portion of the mold.

As far as powder recovery, The price of powder coat is too small at this point to worry about it. If I ramp up, then I might have to work on PC recovery.

[popper]

polyester, epoxy - I think most are polyester (acrylic, polyurethane, polyethylene) - thermosetting. Most of the specs I've found show a pencil test hardness of H-2H, no COF or other data. polyester TGIC has an isocyanic (curing agent?) in it. I went to sherwin williams and AAMA for specs. If others have more data, please post. I did the baggie thing for powder containment(keep it off other stuff) more than recovery and the grid definitely aids in getting a good coat.
bmiller - did you chrony the loads that gave you trouble? Load data says it should run 2800 for j-word in a rifle, so 2600 in a carbine is probably close.