Rifle alloy

[mac1911]

OK so Lyman has lyman #2 alloy listed as the alloy of choice for my particluar load.

I plan on casting for my 03a3 and mosin. I doubt I will be going above 2000fps
and most likely will top out @ 1800fps. I will be useing unigue and or 2400 powder.
As for alloy what I have on hand is COWW and 63/47 solder bars at 1.375 lbs

I have nothing to get the atimony near the 5% lyman #2 has but the tin will be right there at just over 5%

Im wondering if Its wise to use up all the tin in the one bar to get to 5% OR
mix the 15.5lb of COWW with .6875(1/2 bar) to get 3.15% tin and water drop to get the hardness up from 12bhn to close to lyman #2 of 15 ?

useing the alloy calculator the over all hardness is not changed much. But will the extra tin produce better fill out. Or will I not see much difference between 2.5% and 5% tin ?

[Wireman134]

Correct me someone if I'm wrong, but you need Sb to harden boolits

[madsenshooter]

Right wireman, but he doesn't have any. Some babbitts can be a good source.

[mac1911]

im banking on the wheel weights to have some Sb....per calculator its 3%
Im going to have a friend harden test both air dropped and water dropped
I quess if I can get to a hardness of 12 to 15 I should be safe for these loads ?

Im just wondering if Im wasting tin at this point trying to get to the 5% mark of lyman vs the 3.+% I have at half a bar to 15lbs of COWW?

[Larry Gibson]

Mix the COWWs with 2% tin added and let some bullets air cool for 7 - 10 days. The BHN will most likely be close to 16-17 which will then do everything#2 alloy will do within your criteria.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

yes, you are wasting tin.
exceeding the antimonial content of an alloy with tin can cause some issues also.
one [the main one] is tin tearing away from the antimony during the slush stage of the alloy as it cools and the tin causing hard spots on the surface of the boolits surrounded by soft spots of lead.

[mac1911]

at the current calculator
.6875 lbs of 63/37 with 15lbs COWW = Tin 3.24% Atimony 2.87% Arsenic .24% Lead 93.65%

So if I where to try to dublicate hard ball that 2% tin 6% antimony 92% lead I would have some problems ?

Thanks guys.....i will think this over....

[avogunner]

I've been casting for my 03 for over 20 years and for oh...probably the first 15, almost exclusively use straight COWW with great success. I do load to low-moderate velocity (approx 1700fps max) and yes, would add enough tin to ensure good fillout. I didn't have an alloy calculator in those days but usually I would use 2-3oz's of 63/37 per 10lb pot. With a good fitting boolit you should have no trouble with leading so save that tin.
Semper Fi.

[runfiverun]

just double the ww's in the alloy.
you are making this too hard.

ww's are not consistent in thier makeup they however are close enough for real world use.
call em 3% antimony,keep the tin to about 1% added,cast some boolits and go shoot them.
then worry about things.

[btroj]

Exactly Run.

Alloys need not be exact to work quite well. I just use what's have and it seems to almost always work. Why create problems that don't exist?

[WILCO]

yes, you are wasting tin.

That was my thought too.

[mac1911]

Thanks guys. I was trying to follow Lyman manual. I wasn't to happy with fill out with the cows.
I tried a 50soft50coww in my pistol and it started to lead up the barrel. I did not get this with just cows.
I want to avoid leading in my rifle barrels at all cost. Just seem harder to clean.

[Boyscout]

I'm trying to do the same as you. I have been using the Rotometals 70/30 (Lead/Antimony) and keeping my tin at 2% because of cost. I have been shooting for 15 BHN and am water quenching some to get closer to 20 (Marlin XL7 30-06 and .45 ACP) and the 15/16 BHN for the 03A3 and Mosin. I've been smelting WW, casting a few bullets and testing them for the hardness of the batch so I can alloy them to where I want them to be if harder than the 12.1-12.5 I have been getting with the wheel weights. Like the others said it probably isn't that critical but it's been fun experimenting. I even spent a few hours working up an Excel spread sheet to calculate how much 70/30 I need to get the exact hardness I want each time. I'll be testing a few test bullits tomorrow to see it worked (air cooled vs water quench).

[Defcon-One]

I would get some Linotype or Superhard and make Lyman #2. It is what I use for rifles and is excellent metal to cast and shoot. With or without gas checks.

If you can't do that, I'd assume that your WW Lead is 3% Antimony (COWWs ONLY, no SOWW lead in the mix) and I'd add enough Tin to get the Antimony and Tin at the same percentage. Sort of a poor man's Lyman #2. I suspect that would be around 2.88% Tin and Antimony.

What I am saying is keep the Tin and Antimony in balance. I'd never go a higher percentage on the Tin than on the Antimony!

It will cast great and shoot well. You'll probably never notice the difference, especially if you stay below 2,000 FPS.

[wrench]

I don't have a hardness tester, but I've been casting for .30 cal and 8mm, with great success.
My alloy is 50/50 clip on wheel weight and soft lead, with 1/2# of tin added per 40# batch.
I get fine fill out, and zero leading with the type of loads the OP is talking about.
Accuracy is there, too, if I've got everything else right.
I try not to make it harder than it needs to be.

[popper]

+1 on #9. Just add some chilled shot, which will add Sb, WD or HT. Way too much Sn. I'm using 50/50 Pb/#2 HT, in 308 & 30-30 in 1800-2000 fps range, with great results, but will try just Sb/Pb to reduce Sn. Shot or sulfur allows HT without changing alloy, to get hardness @ low cost. So far, fill-out with 50/50 Sb-Pb/Pb is good in pistol. I culled ~300 last nite with like 20 .401 165-FB rejects.

[leadman]

Just add enough tin to get good fillout and water quench from the mold. Been doing it for years and it works fine to just over 2,000 fps in the 30-06. I have 3 1903a3s and 1 1903 Remington, along with a Savage 110DL this alloy works just fine in.

[mac1911]

I mixed a batch of 20lbs COWWs to .5 lbs of 63/37(1/3) bar per alloy calculator this gives me just around 2% tin and 2.94 atimony... I tried straight WW in my 03 and I was getting leading. Which I didnt get with the first batch of bullets which was made with lyman #2

be back on this in a few weeks.

[popper]

Finished CBs the same SIZE between #2 & WW? Alloy, temp, mould temp have an effect on size even after running through the same size die. Size is still king.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, mac 1911. Sounds like your getting caught up in the need for hard lead ideology. I started casting for an 1898 .30-40 Krag & 1903 Springfield back in 1990..like you, my loads are slower..100yd. target/match shooting. My alloy was pistol range scrap+ enough 50-50 solder to fill out nice. I can cut a groove in bullet edge with thumbnail. The bullet I used was an old Ideal 311413G.C.. When seated over 18.5 to 19gr. IMR 4227..they would pile them into 1" at 100yds off bench. Not a particle of leading.
I started loading for a pre war (WW1) German 98' sporting rifle in 7X57. Groove dia. oversized for any 7mm mould I had, so had Fred Leeth at Pioneer Products make me up a nose-pour copy of the Lyman 311041 scaled to 7mm.
I soon found this rifle likes heavy loads..and the heaver the better! Using H4895, I am well past the starting loads for jacketed bullets..and the little rifle wants more!..only my shoulder is beginning to yell uncle..due to the light 6 1/2 lbs.
The point of all this is...even with the heaviest loads..I am using an alloy of range scrap plus some WW & 50-50 solder..almost too hard for the old thumbnail test..but not quite. Lube is Lyman Super Moly.
Again..not a particle of leading.