H4895 vs. H4198 vs. RL-7 For .30-30 Loads?

[emrah]

I've done quite a bit of searching and I think I have if pretty straight, but just to confirm:

I am looking for a different powder than the Alliant 2400 I've been using for my .30-30. The boolit is the Lee C309-170GC. Sized to .311, Alox lubed and gas checked, they weigh in at 181 grains (give or take).

I'd like a great accurate load in the 1800-2000 fps range. The way I understand it, H4895 will work well, but H4198 seems to have the edge in this speed range, correct? I'm looking for a powder that will give the boolit a "softer shove" getting it going, with less of a "hit" than the 2400 gives.

The way I understand it, H4198 will do better in this range, as the load may be a little on the light side for H4895 to work best. Is this correct?

Also, I found very little on Reloder 7. I've heard (read) people recommend it, but there isn't nearly the first-hand experience the other Hodgdon powders have.

So, powder being pricey, would the majority of you suggest H4198 over the other two to start load development?

Thanks,

Emrah

[emrah]

Also, I guess a clarification between IMR-4198 or H4198 would be nice too!

Emrah

[bfuller14]

My Lyman 4th Edition shows IMR-4227 as potentially the most
accurate. 16.5gr @ 1575fps, and a max of 22.0gr @ 1959fps
both with the 170gr boolit.
Also IMR-4198 at 18.0gr @ 1606fps, and a max of 24.0gr @2013fps
Mine does not even show 4895 for a 170gr boolit.

Hope this helps,
Barry

[geargnasher]

My favorite for 1800-1900 fps in .30-30 with 165-grain boolits is Reloder 7. For 2K and up I use 748, but you won't get there with tumble lube.

22 grains of Reloder 7 gets my the best accuracy out of my 20" Marlin, even with a few kernel shells left in the bore.

Gear

[btroj]

Like Gear said, I would use RE7. It meters great, doesn't mind reduced charges, and generally gives good accuracy in almost any cartridge.
4198 is a nightmare to meter, I don't use itmforthat reason.
4895 is better for 2000 plus loads.

[Larry Gibson]

Try 28 gr H4895 with that Lee bullet. That has been my "go to" load in the 30-30 with the very similar 311041 for many years.

Larry Gibson

[popper]

H4895 works well for me but I'm getting better results with lever and it meters better. RD311165 checked or PB.

[leadman]

I use the same load and boolit as Larry in a Contender carbine. Very accurate and the highest velocity of any powder I have tried.

[softpoint]

748. And I use some 760 in 30/30 also

[Marlin Junky]

I've done quite a bit of searching and I think I have if pretty straight, but just to confirm:

I am looking for a different powder than the Alliant 2400 I've been using for my .30-30. The boolit is the Lee C309-170GC. Sized to .311, Alox lubed and gas checked, they weigh in at 181 grains (give or take).

I'd like a great accurate load in the 1800-2000 fps range. The way I understand it, H4895 will work well, but H4198 seems to have the edge in this speed range, correct? I'm looking for a powder that will give the boolit a "softer shove" getting it going, with less of a "hit" than the 2400 gives.

The way I understand it, H4198 will do better in this range, as the load may be a little on the light side for H4895 to work best. Is this correct?

Also, I found very little on Reloder 7. I've heard (read) people recommend it, but there isn't nearly the first-hand experience the other Hodgdon powders have.

So, powder being pricey, would the majority of you suggest H4198 over the other two to start load development?

Thanks,

Emrah

For your intended purpose, 4895 may be the best choice of those powders you've listed, especially if you want to go beyond 1900 fps. Personally, I like 3031 (even in the 444) for midrange loads and I think the longer kernels may burn better in less than 90% density charges. One of these days, I'm going to examine 4064 in the '06 with 180-ish grain boolits. For maximum loads in 30-30 rifles that shoot accurately over 2100 fps, I like a full case of something like H380 or even H414/W760... especially with boolits weighing over 190 grains.

BTW, 26 grains of Re7 drives tacks with c309-170 in my '06 but the velocity is only about 1850 fps from the 24" barrel.

MJ

P.S. When I'm serious about accuracy, I don't care if a powder meters easily.

[tuckerdog]

+1 for 3031 it is the quintisential 30-30 powder for the full range of boolits and bullets. Atleast for me for many years. there are other powders out there that will work but 3031 is the powder I always go back to.

[hydraulic]

I use the same load as Larry Gibson.

[emrah]

Well, I tried 27.0 of 3031 a few days after I posted my original post. I got about fist-sized groups at 100 yards. I got the same sort of grouping with 28.0 with the Sierra FN j-word bullet.

I think I'm at the limit of my eyesight and the sights on the rifle at this point. I don't have a lead-sled or any other solid/stationary shooting rest, so all my shooting is done off my backpack or range bag on the table. Or off the hood of my truck. I put Williams Firesights on my Win. Ranger. They are nice and bright, but the front red sight is so damn big!

The front sight blocks almost half of the 8 1/2" x 11" paper I use for a target. Add in a non-solid shooting rest and I honestly don't think my "test" setup is stable and repeatable enough to test for more accuracy. My loads COULD be better, but I think there's too many variables (i.e. me trying to shoot straight at a blurry piece of paper behind a bright, big-honkin' fiber optic sight).

For now, I'll settle for fist-sized accuracy at 100 yards.

Emrah

[Screwbolts]

Not wanting to hijack the thread. I like ACC 2520 in the 30-30 , load is from Acurates guide, with 170 gr. cast. I use the old Ohaus 170 RN it is a clone of the 311291 I believe, or the now from NOE 311165 FN loaded with the same 28.5 gr of ACC 2520. 2175 FPS now leading , great accuracy.

I also load the NOE 311165 FN PB with 15 grains of SR IMR 4759. 1600 FPS . Harvested a nice doe with this load last fall. It entered the left eye and exited threw the right ear hole. DRT.

I believe RD uses BLC-2 surplus, WC 846 with his Boolitz in the 30 WCF.

Screwbolts

[Larry Gibson]

I have to concur that 3031 is a very good powder in the 30-30. However, for me, if is not a very good powder in a powder thrower. The long sticks of extruded powder do not "meter" well not accuracly. H4895, on the other hand, with it's small kernals of extruded powder meters extremely well and very, very accurately. H4895 is also a modern "Extreme" powder making it much less sensitive to temperature variations giving a much more consistent performance from winter to summer.

Larry Gibson

[Marlin Junky]

Well, I tried 27.0 of 3031 a few days after I posted my original post. I got about fist-sized groups at 100 yards. I got the same sort of grouping with 28.0 with the Sierra FN j-word bullet.

I think I'm at the limit of my eyesight and the sights on the rifle at this point. I don't have a lead-sled or any other solid/stationary shooting rest, so all my shooting is done off my backpack or range bag on the table. Or off the hood of my truck. I put Williams Firesights on my Win. Ranger. They are nice and bright, but the front red sight is so damn big!

The front sight blocks almost half of the 8 1/2" x 11" paper I use for a target. Add in a non-solid shooting rest and I honestly don't think my "test" setup is stable and repeatable enough to test for more accuracy. My loads COULD be better, but I think there's too many variables (i.e. me trying to shoot straight at a blurry piece of paper behind a bright, big-honkin' fiber optic sight).

For now, I'll settle for fist-sized accuracy at 100 yards.

Emrah

The Williams Fire Sight works for me at 50 yards (3/4" groups or slightly less with certain 444 loads for 5 rounds) BUT I fit the Fire Sight to a white circle on a black field. At 100 yards, my circle would need to be 9+ inches in diameter, so I don't bother shooting this rig at that distance.

MJ

[emrah]

Well, I loaded up a batch of 28.0 grains of H4895. I might get a chance to get to the range this weekend and try it out.

Emrah

[emrah]

UPDATE:

Ok, so I got to the range yesterday with the above mentioned load (28.0 gr. of H4895) and I got some real weird results.

The first cold barrel shot would strike high. The second would group real near the first (within an inch or two). Third and fourth would hit about 8 inches lower, but also group very close to one another. In other words, I'd get two, two-shot groups, and each two shot group, by itself was great. But compared to each other, they were more than 8 inchs apart!

What gives???

Emrah

P.S. It's REAL frustrating that no matter what I do, I just cannot get a nice, CONSISTENT groups with this damn rifle. But my 70+ year old milsurps (91/30 Mosin, 24/47 Mauser, 7.7 Arisaka) will shoot circles around this thing all day long.

[lead Foot]

Try 28 gr H4895 with that Lee bullet. That has been my "go to" load in the 30-30 with the very similar 311041 for many years.

Larry Gibson

I use the same load in my new Rio Grande 30/30. This load shoots 1" @ 100 yards. I have no luck with the 170gr LEE, but the RCBS 30-180-fn is the best by far. Shoots better than any jb'.
Lead foot;

[MT Chambers]

Of the orig. posters' choices, I like Rl-7 and 4198 for reduced loads, but I'd use 4895 for heavy hunting loads.