a question

[olafhardt]

I have been on the internet for less than an a year. Back when I read gun magazines I noticed that very few gun writers used Lee products. Being a cheapskate most of what I have is Lee and it does what I want. I have a little of the other stuff and don't see any reason to buy more. So why don't the "experts" use Lee?

[Hickory]

Manufactures not only advertise in these magazines but I have it from a good source that (they) the gun writers receive money to plug someones product.

[45nut]

and then there is the equipment snob aspect. the fellow that unbolts anything not befitting his standing in the world for article pictures, then bolts them back in after.

[41 mag fan]

I know a guy in N Mn who writes reviews for ATV's, snowmobiles, boats, fish houses, ect ect. He gets it all for free and gets to keep it. The luck some ppl have.

[northmn]

As stated the magazines get adverrtisements from various manufacturers and endorse those products. When a gun writer says a trigger pull might be a little rough on a given rifle it likely means that it takes 10 pounds of pull and feels like a rasp drawn over sandpaper. I have used Lee products with good results for what they are designed for. Their loading dies work very well. Thier bullet molds work for small lot casting but a LYman or RCBS is really much better for a large batch. As I do a lot of small batch casting I use the Lee molds.

DP

[waksupi]

To be successful, a magazine writer generally needs a supply of unobtainable molds and obsolete powders. They then can write glowing reports about them, and leave no recourse to prove them wrong. No writer should be permitted to mention or use any powder, bullet, or mold in an article that is not readily available.

[sqlbullet]

I think 45Nut may be onto something. While many of us here appreciate and respect a miser, there are those who won't respect anything said by a writer that stoops to shoot a Taurus handgun or a Century Arms AK.

It may simply be that to maintain the a certain professional respect they have to.

A year or so ago I sent a pointed letter to Roy Hunting (his editorship of American Handgunner) about an article citing the need to spend several hundred dollars to get into casting. I pointed out that you could get into the game for less than $100 with products from Lee. I didn't get a response as I recall.

I don't doubt the RCBS bottom pour furnace is nicer, but I can't believe it would be six times what my Lee 20 lb pot cost. Or even 3 times as nice as my pot will be after I spend another $70 on a PID controller.

So, they can use what they want, and I will use the cheapest stuff that works.

[45-70 Chevroner]

northmn: You have probably not tried Lees 6 holers. Yesterday I cast 650 38 slugs in less than two and a half hours and that included heating up to casting temp. I did not start casting until 3 PM in the afternoon and was finished by 5:30 just before the sun went down and I also had every thing put away.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, admitedly, I am a limited Lee product user.

I do have some Lee products for specific jobs, and although I avoid many of their products I have a few that I use many times.

Their Powder dipper set is one very usable product.

Not because I use or trust them for throwing powder charges, but because they are handy for throwing an aproximate amount of powder into the scale pan.

I usually use one dipper to get close to the required weight and a second MUCH smaller dipper to make +/- adjustment bringing the scale to the desired level.

However, you need to look closely at the product you are buying and in some cases, the Lee products, no matter how cheap, are grossly over priced.

Junk is junk, no matter how low the price.

I like my case sizing dies to have an adjustment ring/nut which locks securely in place. Some folks don't. But because of that fact I have seldom bought Lee dies and when I have I have added a second ring/nut or one with a set screw.

I don't want any possibilities of an adjustment changing, without me changing it.

In fact, Hornady case sizing die sets, of which I have a number, are a clear step up in quality from Lee, and I don't like the bullet seating stem on the Hornady because it does not have a lock nut. Then on the case sizing die, I put enough pressure on the nut through which the de-capping pin runs to assure it does not slip as Hornady has designed it to do.

So, the point is pick your tools as to what floats your boat, but be aware that some Lee offerings are very low in quality and lasting ability.

Floating your boat IS important, as there are many Lee products which are well liked by many reloaders and yet, I would not have one if it was given to me.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bullet Caster]

Operating on a shoestring budget I could only afford Lee products. To me everything works fine as I really don't have anything to compare with what I've purchased. I had to sell an old shotgun in order to buy my first press--A Lee breechlock. If I can produce a round without hurting myself or anyone else then I have succeeded at what I've set out to do. Casting is totally new to me and so far since I've only got Lee moulds, I finally believe I've gotten the hang of it. I have two casting sessions and have produced over 800 boolits for 2 calibers. I have read nearly everything about casting on this site and think that I have a handle on things at the moment. What makes one product superior to another product except price. I am satisfied with what I have and will only add to it for the years to come. Thanks to all my friends at Cast Boolits for the help they given me. BC

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Morn'in BC,

Just a tip,

Don't forget the used loading equipment available out there!

My OLD RCBS RockChucker was old when I traided for it.

Once had problems with the shell holders moving on me, so called RCBS trying to find a cure. They just said they's send me a new ram. I told them the press was old and used when I got it, but no matter, here come a new ram for my old press.

Just be carefull when buying sizing dies that they have not rusted or been scored on the inside. Outside condition, no real big thing other then looks, but if the sizing die is bad inside it may not be usable.

Also look a scales over for damage.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[rintinglen]

If you are writing and getting paid for it, your expenses are deductable. You buy a top dollar item, write it off against your income and uncle Sam helps pay for it. When most of us buy hobby related equipment, we get no tax break.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

rintinglen,

Something to what you say, However, I was in business for a number of years and the problem with that thought is that what you buy as a business related expense, MAY??, come off your income tax -----------

-------BUT, you still must make the money to buy the item which means it comes out of of whatever income your business may have.

Then, Should the business close before any of those items are finally off the books - 2 - 5 - 10 - years after they were first bought, depending on the what percentage is allowed/taken "off the taxes" each year, YOU MUST pay evey last cent of deduction back to Uncle Sam. Been there and done that!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUCH!!!!!!!!

So, be that as it may, when writers use/show quality in their writings.

Low quality products, be they cars, washing machines, firearms, reloading tools, or whatever are never a good deal in the long run.

In almost all cases, we do get what we pay for.

Many years back, I started with Herters products for reloading. After a fashion they got the job done, but they were low quality and poorly made - sizing die looking like it was reamed with a threading tap etc. - handle broke on the press etc. etc. - Then bought a Tasco scope a number of years back and likewise it was just what I paid for, Trashco.

AS I indicated earlier, buy what floats your boat, but the wise buyer buys the best quality he/she can for the job with the money available.

I started with Herters, but I'm sure not there now!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[fryboy]

i think 45nut hit on a very valid aspect of it .... also of note the last lyman cast boolit handbook does have other molds than lyman [just sayin'] many seem to care little except that they meet whatever definition of staus quo they determine to be ummm "it" and the rest of us whom actually have no problem with the stuff they lambast are somehow beneath them [...as if ....]

[Bwana]

He who has the gold rules. And if you are an advertiser in the magazine your product will get a pass even if it is no good. Seen it many times. Now that doesn't mean that a pass or glowing report is due to being an advertiser; your equipment may be very well worth the good report.
I have a RCBS "competition set" in .308 win. I'm sorry, but, it is garbage. I would feel bad even giving it away. I load 308 Win with a RCBS X-die and a Redding competition bullet seater. A winning combo iin my book. I don't use Lee die sets to load rifle rounds, I use RCBS. I generally use Lee to load pistol rounds and RCBS for revolver. I think RCBS's kinetic bullet puller is the best. I use a Lee Auto-Prime 2 with one of my Lee hand presses to prime all my cases. All my molds are Lee as are my two 20 lb pots. Two RCBS RCs. Lyman 450 lubrisizer; but, I prefer RCBS dies for it. I have about 40 die sets and that doesn't include the ones purchased just to make my Hybrid bullets. Like the man said, "Find what works for you". One thing for sure: Quality will stick around for a long time and give good service.

[fredj338]

Not an equip snob at all, I use some of Lee's gear, but most of their stuff is really cheaply made, doesn't stand up to hard use, so better suited for the beginner IMO. I have used just about everyones gear, still have most from Lee, Lyman, Hornady, RCBS, Redding & Dillon. IT all works, the Lee just seems to require more effort or it breaks in short order. I have rarely replaced other brands but have sent stuff back to Lee more than I would like. If I need a part time tool, I don't mind buying Lee. If I need a durable long lasting product, I look elsewhere.

[captaint]

I guess I'm like a lot of folks.. I buy the best I can afford. OR I buy something for a specific need or specific purpose. Sometimes it's Lee. Sometimes it's Sinclair or Harrells. Depends on what I want it for. Depends on how good the end result needs to be. I do really like Lees push through sizing dies. A shame I don't TL any more. I do still use them if I have more than average to take off a boolit before going thru the other sizer. Some of their things are very good indeed. Mike

[olafhardt]

Well people I thougtt about this while chewing on turkey. I don't think it's because of advertizing because I see a lot of Lee ads in the gun rags. The simi-bribery with products is fairly obvious and I also think it is done with awards and recognition and free hunts etc. I also think they take advantage of own snobbery. These things along with great forums like this one are the reasons the term "gun magazine" now means to me the place you store the ready ammo in a gun.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I like my case sizing dies to have an adjustment ring/nut which locks securely in place. Some folks don't. But because of that fact I have seldom bought Lee dies and when I have I have added a second ring/nut or one with a set screw. I don't want any possibilities of an adjustment changing, without me changing it. Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I can respect other's opinions.

I'd like to state that I dislike 'setscrew' style locknuts.
To me they are a pain. Granted, I use a Lee classic turret press,
and with the small size of the turret, the Large 'setscrew' style
locknuts will not work at all and if there is a small 'setscrew' style
locknut out there, many times I can't access the setscrew.

Lee's O-ring locknut is a Godsend. It grips the threads of a die so
it won't loosen, even on a auto-indexing turret press which has motions
and vibrations, Yet is easily adjustable.
To me, that is great inovation.
Jon

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Aaaaah Jon,

Maybe you are the person I once before heard/read giving much the same opinion.

Funny how we come down on such things! What you see as a "God send," the hookie o-ring "lock nut" used by Lee is to me just another clear sign of lower/cheaper quality.

Where you like and trust this, "innovation" I on the other hand, providing of course I should even have a set of Lee sizing dies, and I have, go to the trouble/expense of replacing the o-ring set up with a locking, lock ring.

Even to the point of one time removing the 0-ring and doubling two Lee rings to assure no movement.

I use a single stage press rather then a turret type for rifle loads, and my Hornady L-N-L - used only for handgun rounds - uses the locking bushings in which are placed dies with relyable/positive locking rings.

Plenty of room for getting in there to remove or change dies, which sounds different from your needs.

Loading equipment/brands/styles is clearly one of those places we must agree to disagree, and hopefully we can each keep buying the different brands of equipment that "floats" each of our boats.

While I would not consider myself as an, "equipment snob," I would fall quickly into the class of a Quality Snob and therefore buy, what I view as quality while avoiding what you would view as an innovative short cut.

Glad to still live in a place where I can sing the praises of RL-22 while you come down with IMR 7828! Keeps the forums interesting, a number of companies in business, and clearly points out how both we and our firearms are individuals.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot