Do you seat below the neck??

[barrabruce]

Seating below the neck acceptable practice??

I've just started all anew today.
Beat a sized unpatched slug through the bore and found my nose diameter was a tad small.

Could explain why they shot good with a hard lino lead mix.

Just spent 2-3hrs and gained maybe a 0.005" or so in the nose of the mould.
Still have to whack the nose with a mallet to bump them up for a full even 0.302" resize.
The sides are a rub wider than the middle.


Hoping they fly straighter.
I think I may have gotton rid of a rough spot in the bore
Maybe could do with the poor groups Iv'e been getting of late.

Going the whole hog for the postal match,

I'm going to full length wrap and size to 309.5 with a light smear of alox with note pad. should bring down groups to 2 moa and less I hope.
If they work I got a couple of sheets of the elusive rag paper to make bug holes.

My 170 fp won't touch the lands/forcing cone without seating pretty deep.



Is it o.k. to do it??? or just wasting my time.


If these don't work I will go the 150's and axe this mould for PP
Althou it does shoot good enough as plain cast.
The nose has always wobbled a bit but has always been constant.

All help appreciated.

Barra
2 years on and still struggling.

[303Guy]

I don't but that doesn't make it wrong. Truth is, I just assumed it to be not a good idea and just stuck to it. I do get powder impressions (or patch impressions) on the base of the boolit so that kinda reinforced my notion.

[barrabruce]

I get paper impressions on the base of my bullet after Iv'e sized them.
I've tried different styles ..from a rounded head to make a hollow sort of base so the paper sits in ..to a flat one thats leaves a ring around the gas check base at the moment so I can get a paper gas check effect and not leave a fine burr of paper that can catch and tear at the base when it comes out my sizer.

I might have to abandon my whack'em through with the hammer dies and by another press so I can have regular sized dies in it.(super simplex).
Iv'e never seen sizing dies for one!!!!!

I can only try it and if the paper blows off during ignition and smears a wad of lead down the bore it will be better than a big BOOM!!!.
The projo sits down near the base of the neck.
I think 32 grains and its a compression load.
Loaded one of each from well below mimimun to pretty warm.
Still with in specs.
I have see people do gas check in 7.62x39 deep seated and survive.
Don't know about accuracy thou.

Could just buy some J words and be done with it.

Barra

Barra

[pdawg_shooter]

In my 300 RUM with its short neck all my 311284 loads require seating below the neck. They will hold 1 MOA at just over 3000fps so I guess it dont hurt much.

[barrabruce]

Thanks pdawg I will continue then.

I have decided I'm going to go the true path now and not divert into weird wrapping tangents.

Hell I maybe able to hit something yet!!!

Cheers
Bruce

[docone31]

I seat my .303 Brit below the neck all the time.
Same as jacketed with paper. Same with my 7.62s.
Full tilt loads.

[barrabruce]

Thanks Docone.
Will continue my persuit.

Everyone thinks "I've been out in the sun too long "at the range!!!

Starting to think they are right.

Barra

[pdawg_shooter]

When they see your groups, you will end up spending all your range time telling them how to paper patch their own.

[barrabruce]

Thanks pdawg I spent all last week-end baby sitting 20 shooters.
On me feet from 9-3.
When I did some shooting and started to load some plinking loads with me lee clasic whack'em die the "new to range folk" The "knowledgeable"shooters with they "new" remchesters 308 etc laughed at me with dirty cast bullets and that thing.
Appears I gotta have bulistic tips and 4 ton of reloading gear and load proper and a decent gun!!!


Appears I'm quite mad
Heard from the Back gallery somewhere.
"that guy's crazy
"He'll blow himself up"
"Some-one should stop him"
.,,he can't really be a range officer"
Some one else " and vice president"

Barra

[303Guy]

I've mentioned before how my shooting buddy was so convinced that one could not shoot plain lead in a centre fire. "Think about it", he said, "how's the lead going to grip the rifling?" (Not to mention that he shoots a 22lr all the time!)

Well, we were out together when I fired my first plain lead group. All the while he was telling me it can't possibly work. Then I fired the first three shots and that shut him up!

These were they.

[Lonerider]

Been wondering about the same question.....I am ever so slowly, inching my way to roll my own. I will be using bullets from Bruce's 462-465 GC mold in my Guide GUN. I know I will need to size her down a little more, but hoping I can make it work.

Just read Paul Matthew's book, for the 3rd time ....'The Paper Jacket', That Clodhopper loaned to me. Very good reading. He does mentioned/suggest wrapping to just below the case mouth on leverguns....and especial with short wide mouth like mine.

The particuliar style bullet I am using doesn't taper enough, to not catch during cycling...if I am undestanding right.

The question that goes along with the OP....how do you prevent damaging the paper when crimping?

I am using RCBS Cowboy dies and Lee's FCD.

I am guessing I can't crimp has tight....but then, wont that lessen bullet tention and not cause as hot ignition and thus a slower moving boolit?

From what I gather, PP can help with accuracy and more ooomp!

But if I cant crimp as normal, how does that work?

....and....what keeps the patch from shreading from the crimping process?

Thanks in advance.

Lonerider

[pdawg_shooter]

All my patches extend just over the start of the ogive. Works fine in my 1985g. I size .451 and patch with 16# printer paper. After drying I lube, and run through a .459 die. No problems with tearing the patch.

[barrabruce]

I don't need to crimp as I have a single shot.
A case full of powder to sit the bullet on might help in a lever.
Didn't think bullet tension in the case caused that much difference in ignition since it will be on the lands/forcing cone anyway.
Thou as usual I'm more than likely wrong.

I have loosened up my tension so i can seat by hand. Maybe I should opt for a firm fit.

Barra

Barra

[Lonerider]

Thanks pdawg and barra. Bruces boolits does taper towards the metplate some, much likes RD boolits. I think if I run the patch almost half way between the crimp groove and metplate I should be fine. I will just have to experiment. Part of the fun!

Lonerider

[barrabruce]

Well I tested one bullet each from 27.5- 32.5 grns 2208 in me 30-30.
The powder burnt cleaner when I hit 31.5-32.5 grns.
Showing signs of more falt on the primers but still well rounded.
No extraction troubles and I'll check the cases for streatching etc.

Seated full wrapped and sized to where they wanted to go.Deep
I could maybe squeeze in up to another grain

Hmmm findings where interesting.
I put a cleaning patch though after each round.
There seems to be 3x different groupings

The lower few loads shot 27.5 way low first shot of day.
28-28.5 with in an inch
29 29.5 gns 2" left but at about the same height.
30 grains didn't know where it wanted to go.
30,5 31 31,5 formed a wider group than the low stuff but about 4" higher.
32 shot wild to the left and 32.5 shot Higher again with a bigger gap.

Loaded up 5 x 30 grains 2 went into the region of the mid level loads and 2 went into the lower level group. One went in between.

Loaded 5x 32 grains and they had bigger despersion but most landed in the high load area.

Loaded 4x 28.5 grainers and they were the least spread out group close to the original low loads.

So I guess I have a load of @28 grs-29.5 max still fouling with unburnt powder though.

30 grains must be the limit where a pressure spike is accuring or where the powdeers kicking in.
As when I bump it up more into the next level they tend to settle again althou the group size is not good.

30 grainers chronoed 1987 1862 1915 1891 pfs. not the published 1975 for jacketed.
The patches were coming of in medium sized chuncks and splashing the face of the chrono 10-15 feet away.

Maybe I should get a faster burning powder.
This one don't seem to burn clean in my bore anymore.
What you's reckon????

Barra.

[303Guy]

What were those boolit weights, barra? I've found that heavier boolits in the Brit will burn much cleaner than with lighter. With lighter boolits, more powder is required for a clean burn. The fact that your groups move around but also open up makes me wonder about the bedding of your rifle. Remember that the bedding is the fit between the barrel and breach with the action. Just something to consider.

[barrabruce]

170 grainers
I thought it might do with pressure and fouling issues causing more pronounced effect and pressure velocity increased.
Any way go me stumped.


Well strange about the bedding.
I painted more fore-end and I had contact along the bottom of the barrel in places.

My plinker load was o.k. but the point of impact had moved along with the PP ing.
Me paper patch went to the wind if I didn't let the barrell cool right down between shots.

So I took some emerycloth and turned it upside down and re -floated it by shoe shining the paper against the barrel.
Rural I suppose but it works.

Me plinkers doing good and me paper patches are about the same as I had before in " impact height difference".

This is a Handi and a o-ring under the barrell lug screw tends to help dampen vibrations and free floats it.



I was getting better groups with 1/2 to 3/4 patch with this powder but still dirty
.But sometimes it would pick up lead if I didn't use enough alox on the exposed nose section.

I might try with no alox/lube on the full length patches to see if the build up of crap is more forgiving.

I can't load them up to hot 'cos the factory 30-30 highland 150's needed full length sizing before I could use them again.
Sort of have to keep the pressures down I guess in mine a tad.
I refitted the barrel and if I put grease on the pivot lug it don't close up propelry even.
I couldn't close a piece of paper in it when I finished it.
After a heap of plinkers and 750 rounds of PPing a peice of paper will close in the action now but shows sings on compression and won't come out unless its unlocked. So I don't think its that.
There is good contact across the whole lug and contact areas.

MAybe its flexing the action in a rotational twist when it loads up but doesn't explain why factory ammo shoots hotter and with in an inch.
Iv'e got a bit left and should check that statement to see if its changed at all and work from there. I don't think so thou.

I had better results with 2206H and maybe I should try 2207 or 2206.

Maybe I should take up knitting instead ??

Hope I haven't let out team down against the yanks although no ones posting any groups.

I would like to see some of the veteran PP'ers so us how its supposed to work.

Can't seem to get it to work.
I'll keep stuffing more powder in and hope for the best.

Something has gotta give sooner or later

Was an interesting day anyway.

Barra

[CJR]

Barra,

Are you separating your bullets by weight? If not, it may help shrink the groups.

Best regards,

CJR

[303Guy]

Hope I haven't let out team down against the yanks ...

Hell no. I'm interested in what they can do! We'll get there eventually but we need them to show us the goal posts!

OK, so the rifle shoots good with factory but not PP. Therefore the rifle is good. Any chance of doing a chamber/throat 'slug' and posting us pictures? Just wondering if there is something about the throat that might be a factor. (I seem to remember you saying you don't have a digital camera?)

Twice now I have developed a load purely using the 'test tube' which turned out great in the field. Do you have any AR2209? A full case of that under a heavy PPCB might just do the trick. I know that too little of it in a 303 doesn't burn completely but I'm talking less than the 30-30 can hold. (I don't use AR2208 'cause I can't distinguish it from AR2209).

[barrabruce]

No I don't sort them only visual. I can do a small batch and see

From 28-29.5 grains they all landed in a 4" cirlce

I'll see if I can do a chamber cast.


Well hammer a lead slug in there anyway.
Unless theress an easier way in doing it.
I did see one fella post a pick of blown out brass tubing but never figured that one out.

Be back soon.
I wish it was shooting at least as good as it was before.

I can see the Yanks getting there benchrest custom made rifles and certified pure alloy mixed swagged slugs out.
Wrapped in handcrafted rag paper from the dead see scrolls.
Moistened with 100000 yr old atric melt water and rolled on the inner thigh of a virgin ..

If we end up hitting something well enough accidental like !!!!

I wanna see it too.

Be back soon