To cast or not to cast 7.62x54r

[maximus]

im just gona stare at grafs and sons to get some of those berdan primers.

[Casting Timmy]

The mosins were the first rifle I started relaoding for, and now I am reloading cast bullets for them. Be careful buying surplus ammo, some of it is brass cased and the other is steel cased laquered. In all my mosins the steel case laquered ammo will just about freeze the bolt closed with sticking in the chamber. Unfortunately I had to learn that the hard way about not shooting the steel case in the bolt actions.

The 440 rounds surplus cannisters can be steel case, so be very careful of what surplus ammo you buy if you go that route.

Prvi is good brass, and I would recommend buying it here and there then getting dies and a mold as you can. Lee has some 2 cavity molds that are raelly cheap but sometimes take a little elbow grease to clean up and get casting well. If you have time to clean it up you can save some money buying a Lee mold to see if you like casting before getting something else.

Have fun, with whatever you decide to do.
Timmy

[WineMan]

The last batch of Berdan primers that was sold by Graf's fit the 7.5x55 GP11 brass fine but may not fit some of the larger primer pockets of 7.62x54R. I know it would fit the brass Albanian cases but I did not try it in any of the steel cases from Poland or Bulgaria that I had on hand. The other issue is that the primers were made for the 7.62x39 and as such are under powered for full charge loads and jacketed bullets in larger cases with slower powders. Hangfires and non fires were reported. I used them in light cast loads with Alliant 2400 in the 7.5x55 Swiss and had 100% ignition. Tula the supplier recommended making the flash holes larger to have them work with larger amounts of slower (4895 and slower) powders. YMMV. The seating depth of Berdan is also very critical and not crushing the priming pellet is the key.

With Boxer primed brass available, saving Berdan brass is really only a challenge to say "I can do it". If you are frugal, can find Berdan primers, and have free time it can be done. A couple of hundred boxer cases will last a long, long time shooting even heavy cast loads and with velocities around 1,600 fps (pretty darn accurate and good for 200 yards without leading) they may last a lifetime. Using Berdan brass is really a labor of love. I am sure if there was a more reliable source and larger selection of primers it might make more sense.

The nice thing about cast is you can shoot all day and not worry about your shoulder or wearing out a barrel although with Mosins at $100 barrel life may not matter. Most of the surplus I have fired is pretty warm and the heavy ball in a M38 or M44 carbine is will get your attention and that of anyone around you. Due to the corrosive priming mixture, cleaning after every shooting session is a necessity when shooting surplus ammo. I use a couple patches saturated with Windex glass cleaner down the bore and around the bolt face and end of the barrel, followed by a normal cleaning with Hoppes #9, CLP, Outer's or any other of the commercial bore cleaners then a couple of gun oil patches.

If you want a big bore rifle experience and not spend much money, a MN 91/30 and a couple of cases of Surplus ball ammo is the way to go. You probably will not be able to hit your point of aim under 300 yards without making the front sight higher, the bolt will probably be sticky, triggers are usually long and creepy and using the "safety" will challenge your fingers and wrist. That being said, I have three MNs and I like them all.

Wineman

[northmn]

I agree with Wineman in that I would not mess with berdan primers and get the boxer style. Relaodable brass is just too common for this caliber. Availability of berdan primers makes them false economy. Also you have to order them by the 1000 where I can get primers locally by the 100. I believe there is Hazmat on primers also.
DP

[HighHook]

Like previously mentioned just buy a couple boxes of boxer, shoot em up then load'em up with CB. When i go shooting i take several different rifles and shoot 20-40 rnds each in the different calibers.

[HamGunner]

Boxer primed brass is much more available now than in the past. A hundred rounds of brass will shoot a long time using cast bullet loads. I load for two different size bores using jacketed stuff and I load both jacketed as well as cast for my M-28 which has the smaller bore. If you will be using open sights, then cast bullet accuracy and cheap bullets can make for a lot of shooting fun.

Forget the Berdan primers.

[HamGunner]

With the availability of boxer primed brass for the Moisin-Nagant, I doubt that I would want to go to the effort, but below is one alternative. Might be a fun project for someone that likes to tinker.

http://users.ameritech.net/mchandler/primer.html

[piwo]

Yes, .311 and .312 are common bore measurments with the Three Line Rifle! And those .308's are just rattling all the way down the barrel. I've thought of casting for mine, but haven't crossed over from the muzzleloading world to the cartridge world as yet when it comes to casting......

[Kraschenbirn]

From my limited MN experience - I've only got one (so far) - my take is that CBs are the best way to go with those old Russki's. The bore of my 91/30 is shiny with sharp rifling but slugs at just under .312 so surplus Bularian FMJs print what look like buckshot patterns at anything past 50M. On the other hand, Lee 312-185s - dropped from a "beagled" mould, sized .314, and loaded into Privi cases - will ring a 10" round swinger @ 200M with boring regularity.

Try a running a search of this forum for something like "Moisin Loads"...there have been a number of threads on the subject.

Bill

[buck1]

Mine sluged out at a whopping .318 . I am still slowly shooting Winchester ammo through it. $25.00 a box but it should be good brass. 1 box a payday. As big as my bore is it still holds 1 1/2 groups at 100 yds. I DRILLED IT AND INSTALLED THE ati SCOPE BASE AS WELL AS THE ati CAMMO STOCK. OOPS! I hit the caps lock key.
Theres a guy o ebay that does great bolt work for about $50.00 .

[WineMan]

Another option would be to use the Ed Harris "The Load" which is 13 grains of Alliant Red Dot

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

Use this with some of the pulled 0.308 or 0.311 jacketed bullets and have something in the middle of the road. The 308 bullets seem to fill up and not rattle too much and have surprising accuracy. It can also be used with cast to good satisfaction. It is however on the top side for that powder. I stick with Alliant 2400 for most of my normal cast loads and use Unique for lighter boolits and lower velocities.

Wineman

[masscaster]

Hi Folks,
I find the MN to always need slugged first. I've seen bores to .320, and as low as .309.
This usually used some moulds by Lyman in the .319 series, but most being tighter can run the .311/.313 series respectively.
Alot of the shooter's of this firearm use a .311359 made by Lyman. This is sized either .311, or .313.
You have to remember they used the rifling reamers for large runs. They gradually wore down.
This is the main cause for the bore variations, not bad tooling.
Shoot the proper size cast @ .001 over at moderate velocities and you'll find you have a good shooter.
By the way, .311359 is GC Carbine boolit, and there's a nice little PB boolit that works well also sized @ .311/.313. You can also shoot the .313 series (.32 Spec./.32 LC) series of boolits.
Hope this helps.
Happy Holidays!!
Jeff

[iron brigade]

Yes, .311 and .312 are common bore measurments with the Three Line Rifle! And those .308's are just rattling all the way down the barrel. I've thought of casting for mine, but haven't crossed over from the muzzleloading world to the cartridge world as yet when it comes to casting......

between my son and i we have 5 mn's and they all shoot .308 dia fmj bullets very well. we do shoot cast bullets in 2 of the rifles-311291 as cast.

i forgot to mention the 2 m39 finns along with my m27 & m28 and a finn m91. love those rifles!

[Gunsmoke4570]

I've got a collection of Finnish MNs and most of the bores on them are pretty consistent around .311. I do have a M27 that comes in at .307 though as was normal for some of this model. The surplus rifles is where I'm hoping to expand my boolit casting into instead of just handguns.

[northmn]

I like to shoot the cast in the milsurps mostly as a preservation issue, in that they are much easier on the bores. I doubt if one can shoot out a barrel with cast and cast have a tendency to give a lube coating that protects the bore when I get a bit lazy. Corrosive primed stuff is OK for a lot of shooting in an afternoon but a pain for occaisional shooting at one shot or so (kind of like a muzzleloader). As I have taken deer with cast bullets and like their performance for that purpose better than jacketed, I love to shoot cast. Were I to get a MN with a very large bore I would consider selling it and getting one more in line with the bore size I have stuff for. (I did that once) They are cheap enough to trade off and collect without breaking the budget.

DP

[diehard]

I am still slowly shooting Winchester ammo through it. $25.00 a box but it should be good brass. 1 box a payday.

I have a number of MN's (not so many any more--they make good Christmas presents). Two rifles I still own slug out at .310 and.311 ,and I have used them both for hunting rifles, shooting all the boxer primed brass I could find for practice so I could reload it with .311 bullets. I find the Winchester brass to be excellent brass, and also accurate ammo. Prvi/Wolf Gold is good brass, and my only complaint is I have had rims too thick to fit in my shell holders without touching them up a little with a file. Don't know if anyone one else has experienced this, but 250 rounds of PRVI 30-30Win I bought has the same problem. Anyway, now that I reload cast boolits some of that Win brass has been loaded a dozen or more times and still looks brand new. Good stuff.

Maximus.....as mentioned the advantage of CB's is the versatility of rounds you get from the same brass. I shoot Lee 113 soup cans from one MN , and can switch to Lee 312-160-2r and even Ranch Dog 165's without changing the sights (much). When I only shot surplus I found I was constantly trying to figure out why my sights were low with one load, high with another, and like buckshot with the next one. My unsolicited two cents.....

[DeadHandRed]

Maximus, i have the same dilemma with my M44 but had decided (easy decision after reading teh castboolit forum) to buy good brass ammo for a year, then start casting next year once ive got enough brass. ive started collecting WW's for a few months now, and have over a hundred pounds without too much effort.

[RCB1917]

Been reading the forum for some time. The discussion re the MN 7.62x54R caught my eye. My rifle is not accurate with surplus (corrosive) ammo that I have been shooting. I used to cast boolits but had gotten away from it. The Mosin is the most inaccurate rifle I own... The attached pic was 50 yard results, using a Bullsbag rest. (Rem ammo was for another rifle) Might as well used a shotgun with a turkey choke..

[Jjed]

Here is my target from my first outing with my mn. I got lucky and got one that shoots .312 cast very well.
this is 100 yds, 19.4 gr 2400 with 180 gr boolit.

[Landric]

I finally picked up some 7.62x54 dies and a couple of boxer primed cases, so hopefully I'll be shooting cast in mine as soon as I find the right mould.