Glad I have the Uberti with 1:20 twist. Can't wait to do some workups. The Kort 215C should be here from Accurate any day now.
Glad I have the Uberti with 1:20 twist. Can't wait to do some workups. The Kort 215C should be here from Accurate any day now.
Does anyone know where I can find 44-40 brass either new or used?
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Thanks Rick,
I will take a look there and see what is available. Although I have been lurking in the background for years I have not posted anything. That means I cannot use some of the features of this forum.
Barry
No they will not. No bore is perfect. The imperfections will let jets of hot gas blow by hard cast bullets shot at low pressure. This will cause leading. It isn't just size sealing the bore. The accelerating bullet resists forward movement and expands slightly causing it to press against the bore. If the bullet is too hard to expand (obturate) by the pressure applied to it's base then it will not seal the bore.
Funny how I'm not getting any leading.
Obturation happens at the moment of ignition. It is caused by the inertia of the bullet. Soft lead will collapse into itself before the expanding gasses overcome the bullet's inertia, causing the bullet to expand outwards. Once that bullet starts moving, obturation is over. So, by your logic, every gun would lead like crazy because some imperfection in the bore would negate the benefit of the obturation.
Obturation was important in the old guns with factory ammunition because there was such a wide variance in bore dimensions, which ammunition manufacturers could not account for. It is still important in muzzle loaders because you're limited to bullets at bore (land) diameter, so you need the bullet to expand and grip the rifling.
Many smokeless loads will not obturate even soft bullets because the acceleration is too slow. How do smokeless shooters get around this? They cast the bullet at .001" or more over groove diameter.
If you force something into a hole that is larger than the diameter of the hole, it seals, just like corking a bottle.
Thundermaker. Nope.
A cork in your analogy is an expanding spring continually pressing against the inside wall of what it seals. A bullet will not have that much pressure pushing against the walls of the bore as to hold back the 10,000psi (or more) expanding hot gas. There was an article on the LASC cast bullet sight, "IS YOUR BULLET SOFT ENOUGH?" . This article explained the subject much better than I can. This is also a rule of thumb, not a carved in stone absolute. Every firearm and load combination are a unique of their own. It has also been my experience with commercial "hard cast" bullets. This is how and why I became a bullet caster. Just one of my real life experiences is this. 44WCF (44-40) , 240Gr bullet, CCI#350 Primer, Starline brass and a slightly compressed load of Reloder 7. With hardball alloy severe leading, with wheel weight alloy not quite as severe leading, with 20-1 alloy zero leading. This is with two rifles and a revolver, and bullet fit was not the issue.
Are you sure? You slugged the bores?
We can go around in circles about that analogy, but you're ignoring all my other points.
Either way, it has nothing to do with anything in this thread, as I'm not having any leading problems or ES problems that would suggest that the bullet isn't sealing.
Hard bullet lubes are a worse culprit in bore leading than hard alloy. I overcoat commercial hard cast bullets with 45-45-10 over top of the hard lube and get no leading, even if a bit undersized. I never get any leading with beeswax-olive oil with any alloy.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
Same here. I've a lot of .429 sized bullets through several different revolvers with .429 groove barrels and rifles with .430+ groove barrels. The bullets were my own cast with Javelina lube and never had any leading and excellent accuracy. Also shot a lot of commercial hard cast .429 bullets with hard wax lubes that I gave a light coat of LLA to. Never had any leading with those either.
It's primarily the use of a poor lube that causes leading. I do the LLA treatment to all commercial hard cast bullets of various calibers in numerous cartridges and get no leading.
Also with properly lubed bullets the bullet itself will not touch the bore but will ride on a layer of lube. What that means, for example, is a lubed .430 bullet shot through a .429 groove depth barrel will come out of the muzzle at more like .425 +/- diameter.
Last edited by Larry Gibson; 03-27-2023 at 10:14 AM.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Hard bullets are subject to ablation caused by gas leaking around the bullet. They do not obturate, which is why they lead the bore UNLESS you use a soft lube which flows readily when exposed to the heat and pressure of powder gases, so that they coat the bore. Soft lubes induce boundary layer lubrication which prevents adhesion of vaporous lead ablation products to the bore surface. Lacking this condition bullet diameter is reduced and is measurable, exactly as Larry stated.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
this could develop into an interesting argument - think I might get some popcorn and watch.
ps never been a fan of hard cast boolits - its a myth created by commercial casters so they could speed up their production .... softish alloy and good lube = best performance - in the gun and on game.
Determine groove. 40-1 lead mix of proper diameter. 45-55 olive oil-beeswax lube. Cereal box wad slug. Case near full of 3F Goex.
Go out and shoot and enjoy that old BP slug slinger.
40 years and about a ton of 40-1 or range scrap down range and still smiling.
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I am putting the same amount of powder in the case as the old loads, but I'm getting about 300fps less velocity. However, my rifle has the same slow twist as the original. That's why I'm thinking that velocity might be an issue. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen it. People often forget that bullet stability is achieved by spinning a given bullet at a certain RPM, and RPM is a function of twist rate and velocity.
If there is an argument over that subject, you can be sure it won't involve me.
As far as "hard cast" bullets, does air-cooled COWW qualify as such? Looking at some brinell hardness charts, it's the same hardness as the 16:1 alloy that a lot of the BPCR shooters are using.
Last edited by Thundermaker; 03-28-2023 at 05:26 AM.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |